I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers

Here's an exchange I had with ebay recently, any thoughts?

 

Enter your question / concern
I am not happy that the ebay vendor, smartphone.online is still operating as a 'This member is an eBay Top-rated seller' and that I cannot leave feedback on the fact that I had to initiate a dispute resolution with PayPal/Ebay to get my money back. I would like to warn other buyers that a) their warranty is a lie b) if you have a problem with them they will stop communicating with you c) you may be without your phone/product for a significant period of time if you purchase from them. The fact that PayPal ruled in my favour should allow me to do this and I should be able to remove the previously positive feedback (when the phone worked) from their listing.

 

Hi ,

 

Thanks for contacting eBay about the purchase you made from the seller smartphone.online. I understand you're concern about leaving feedback for the seller. Let me assist you.

 

A member can only leave feedback once per transaction. Once a feedback is left it can no longer be removed, unless it falls within our guidelines for removal and once it is removed, a member can no longer leave feedback again. Also, changing a feedback is possible by requesting a feedback revision request from the seller. This applies when you've left a negative or neutral rating. Since you've already left positive feedback before, it will remain as is. However, you can a follow up comment. Your follow up comment will be shown below your original comment. Adding a follow up comment does not have a time restriction. Below are the steps:

 

1. Click Site Map at the bottom of most eBay.com.au pages.

2. Click COMMUNITY link.

3. Under the Feedback heading, click Leave follow-up comment.

4. Choose the comment you want to follow up and click the Follow up link next to it.

5. Enter your follow-up comment in the box.

6. Click the Leave Follow-up Comment button.

 

You can find the details about the eBay Feedback Removal policy here:

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/feedback-removal.html

 

Thanks for choosing eBay.

 

Regards,

 

Hi Marie, 

 
Thank you for your reply. I have done as you suggested yet I still feel that ebay is facilitating in the scamming of fellow buyers by not reporting on issues such as these under the seller's profile. This is a matter I may take to the ACCC as I feel strongly about my consumer rights. 
 
It boils down to this, if a seller claims to offer a warranty for their products or services yet does not deliver on them then a buyer should have the right (beyond an 80 character 'follow-up' comment) to alert other buyers of this. If I, for instance, had known that the warranty offered by this company was false (because of other buyers' feedback) then I wouldn't have been subjected to this entire process. Ebay made this seller look trustworthy on the basis of 6000+ positive feedback comments, yet I highly doubt that my experience is the only one of its kind. I woul dhave liked to know how many 'disputes' this company has been involved in and how they were resolved (i.e. in favour of the buyer or seller). This information would have allowed me to make a better informed decision as to whether to purchase a $450 phone from them or not. 
 
Despite your handling of this dispute and the favourable outcome for me, the buyer, it is extremely unlikely I will use Ebay to purchase products over $100 ever again. Nor will I recommend my friends, family, business associates or colleagues to do so until this matter is addressed. I would strongly suggest you provide more information regarding the dispute history of 'top-rated sellers' on their profile if you want to avoid dissatisfied customers like myself in the future. 
 
Lastly, I have written this feedback as a courtesy considering that I have been a loyal Ebay customer for many years. I will continue to use your services for small purchases or from small.independent vendors. I will not, however, trust your rating system for larger 'top-rated sellers'. I will forward this complaint to the ACCC for their consideration as well.
 
Regards, 
Message 1 of 21
Latest reply
1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Accepted Solutions

I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers


@pcseller2011 wrote:
Thanks for your comment. I agree that this is unlikely to happen and it points to the larger issue of whether eBay/PayPal are truly acting in the best interests of the buyers of their site. A dispute indicates a breakdown of some sort in the customer service conduct of the seller in question. Whether they have done something wrong or not is irrelevant, a customer has issued a complaint and other customers would benefit from knowing whether this occurs often. I agree, the disputes aren't confirmations but they are a record of how often their business conduct results in a dispute.

Does it, though?

 

If whether the seller did something wrong or not is indeed irrelevant, what kind of weight will the instances of buyer complaints actually carry? 

 

There are some key points that I want to put forward here - the first, and most important one, is that sellers will have their selling privileges restricted or suspended (sometimes permanently), if the number of unresolved buyer complaints exceeds 2, or 0.3% - whichever is higher, in their evaluation period. Higher volume sellers will have a 3 month evaluation period, and this 'allowance' equates to no more than 2 unresolved issues per 1000 sales.

 

The second goes back to my initial response to the question I've bolded.... The mere act of communicating with a seller on eBay about an issue, opens up a dispute. In these cases, no matter what, that would become +1 to the stat you're requesting, and the reason I said it would be misleading on average is because of the following kinds of commonly experienced scenarios...

 

Let's seller Seller 1 gets about 50 'complaints' over 3 months, but 75% come directly via eBay message - no eBay or PayPal dispute involved. Seller resolves these issues to buyer satisfaction in one way or another, and gets say 12 disputes added to this stat. 

 

Then let's look at another seller - and please note that the following instances I've detailed are real life scenarios that I, or other sellers in my category, have experienced. Let's say over the course of 3 months, they also get 50 'complaints', this time eBay or PayPal disputes are opened for 75% of said complaints. The nature of the buyer's complaints are things like "the "tiny" beads I bought are really small", "the "burnt orange" beads I bought aren't bright red", "the jump rings I purchased aren't a chain", "the 35mm pins I bought aren't as long as the 45mm pins I bought last time", "the beads with a 1mm hole don't fit my 2mm cord".... I could actually go on with this kind of stuff all day, sadly. As 75% of these came through as (erroneous) INAD disputes, this seller gets say 35 added to the 'complaint' stat.

 

Lastly, let's take a look at another seller - one who is very high volume and sells really cheap products. It's common for such sellers to never hear a word from buyers about problems (so many can't be bothered for a $2 free post item), they get a few negs, for sure, but you might get say 5 actual disputes recorded on their account. 

 

So, how indicitave would that truly be of instances of legitimate complaint, enough for another buyer to base an informed purchase decision on? Seller 2 would clearly have the highest instances of complaint, but lowest instance of actual problems.

View solution in original post

Message 19 of 21
Latest reply
20 REPLIES 20

I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers

I understand where you are coming from but I am not sure you will get your way. From ebay's point of view, I bet they look on us small buyers/sellers as expendable to some extent.

 

I am not sure that merely seeing how many disputes a seller had and how many were decided in his favour versus the buyer's favour would help you. What you are needing is more info about the phone itself etc

I think ebay may be trying to get a bit of this happening as I believe you can now leave a review on some products. If so, that could be a good place to mention warranty issues.

 

I buy a lot from other sites. Admittedly they are sites selling new stuff (although ebay is a bit like that these days too) and I am unable to leave comments on those transactions as such. I can't leave any message to others about how those companies handled any problems.

What I can leave though is feedback review about the product only and a star rating for that product. Obviously they strictly monitor it too.

 

I suspect ebay is heading towards this sort of model with its reviews.

 

PS If you wish to write about your concerns with ebay as a selling place, you can also write up a summary on productreview about ebay itself and give it a rating. Lots of others have!!

Message 2 of 21
Latest reply

I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers


@pcseller2011 wrote:

I woul dhave liked to know how many 'disputes' this company has been involved in and how they were resolved (i.e. in favour of the buyer or seller). This information would have allowed me to make a better informed decision as to whether to purchase a $450 phone from them or not. 

 
 

This is highly unlikely to ever happen. Just like it's highly unlikely for eBay to display how many disputes a buyer has opened / won, so that a seller can decide whether or not they will trust them. 

 

Stats like that aren't conclusive anyway - sellers have won disputes they legally shouldn't have, and so have buyers. Since eBay / PayPal are not legal entities wherein they decide the outcome of cases in a court of law, the decisions made for them are not admissions, or confirmation, of wrongdoing from either party, and as such, displaying that kind of information publically is inconclusive at best, misleading on average, and a minefield of legal issues at worst. 

Message 3 of 21
Latest reply

I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers


@digital*ghost wrote:

@pcseller2011 wrote:

I woul dhave liked to know how many 'disputes' this company has been involved in and how they were resolved (i.e. in favour of the buyer or seller). This information would have allowed me to make a better informed decision as to whether to purchase a $450 phone from them or not. 

 
 

This is highly unlikely to ever happen. Just like it's highly unlikely for eBay to display how many disputes a buyer has opened / won, so that a seller can decide whether or not they will trust them. 

 

Stats like that aren't conclusive anyway - sellers have won disputes they legally shouldn't have, and so have buyers. Since eBay / PayPal are not legal entities wherein they decide the outcome of cases in a court of law, the decisions made for them are not admissions, or confirmation, of wrongdoing from either party, and as such, displaying that kind of information publically is inconclusive at best, misleading on average, and a minefield of legal issues at worst. 



Brilliant as always DG.

Message 4 of 21
Latest reply

I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers


@pcseller2011 wrote:

 

I woul dhave liked to know how many 'disputes' this company has been involved in and how they were resolved (i.e. in favour of the buyer or seller). This information would have allowed me to make a better informed decision as to whether to purchase a $450 phone from them or not. 
 

why would you need the breakdown of won/lost disputes?

 

If the breakdown showed that the seller had won most of the disputes raised you would not be confident in buying from them because if you had to raise a dispute your chances of winning may seem slim?

 

If the breakdown showed that they lost most of the disputes raised then you would not be confident in buying from them because they have a bad reputation based on the percentage of cases lost.

 

Either way, it is the number of disputes raised that would be what you want to know as the outcome would have little bearing on your decision making.

 

Better to stick to these basic rules when buying:

- closely scrutinise the feedback of the seller you are considering buying from

- do not buy on eBay for items where an enforceable warranty is important, buy over the counter from a store and keep you receipts and ask all relevant questions regarding warranty (before buying) to the person on the other side of the counter

- check the number of revised feedback on the seller's feedback page (your seller has 66 revised neg/neutral feedback)

Message 5 of 21
Latest reply

I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers


@chameleon54 wrote:

Brilliant as always DG.

Thankyou, good sir take hat off

 

One other thing I thought may be worth mentioning, is that even referring to eBay / PayPal cases, or other forms of disputes / investigations, in feedback comments is a breach of eBay policy and grounds for removal. I can only hazard a guess or two as to why this may be the case, but if nothing else it provides a decent enough indication of the position eBay take on the public display of such information. 

Message 6 of 21
Latest reply

I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers

Your seller is in China, so contacting the ACCC or fair trading is pointless.Buying anything electronic, including phones from China/HK is a bad move to begin with. Chances are you received a fake or refurbished. Any warranties from OS sellers are no good. That's why some things, like phones, are best bought locally so if there is an issue, you can take it back or claim on warranty.

 

EBay have done nothing wrong in respect to feedback. They have their feedback policy for a reason. It's not eBay's fault you bought a dodgy product from a dodgy seller. If you have been a long term buyer as you state, then you'd know there are some things you should never buy from Asia. You have to ask yourself why they are selling "new" phones for half the retail price. I would also be asking why are they opening the boxes of some of the phones?

Message 7 of 21
Latest reply

I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers

I have bought a few cheap phones and tablets from China. The point is they were CHEAP so I expected cheap and have been pleasently surprised with some of them. One cheapo phone I bought is still working fine after a couple of years (usually I have lost them or destroyed them in some way before that lol), others have perhaps only lasted six months but I could have bought half a dozen of them for the price of a good brand genuine phone and I don't give a stuff what it looks like or what brand logo it has on it.

 

I have one phone and one tablet that I paid a fair amount of money for. The tablet is fine after a couple of years but the phone is getting cranky and the battery charge lasts less and less. I would never have considered buying either of them from anywhere but a B&M store.

____________________________________________________
It says in this book I am reading that by 2065 80% of women will be overweight.

See what a trendsetter I am?
Message 8 of 21
Latest reply

I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers

This is sort of off topic but I was shocked by your post.

 

I'm going to come out and confess I still have a flip mobile phone but I have been thinking of upgrading to one of those screen things.

But are you saying that 2 years is about all you can expect one to last?Smiley Surprised

My flip phone is 9 years old and still going strong. I absolutely hate having to replace stuff, even my car is 20 this year.Smiley Frustrated

 

Is it worth me upgrading to a modern mobile, that is what I am wondering.

 

Message 9 of 21
Latest reply

I want to see a dispute history for high-volume (1000+) sellers


@springyzone wrote:

 

 

But are you saying that 2 years is about all you can expect one to last?Smiley Surprised

My flip phone is 9 years old and still going strong. I absolutely hate having to replace stuff, even my car is 20 this year.Smiley Frustrated

 

Is it worth me upgrading to a modern mobile, that is what I am wondering.

 


I bought one to upgrade from my several-year-old phone a bit over a year ago, (old one was just your basic function type, i.e. phone and text was pretty much all it's good for, and I still use it but the number is soley used for online stuff). My impression on modern phones is that they're now a bit like computers, as in there will come a point when the device won't be able to handle new software and apps, it's get slower, more glitchy etc, which never happened with older phones as the only way to update those was to buy a new one, while the new one gets operating system and app upgrades all the time (obviously this will be minimised with fewer installed apps, I downloaded about half a dozen and there was a bunch pre-installed as well. Some I've deleted, others I'm not sure if I can without causing problems; conversely, I like having access to almost everything that I do on my home PC, no matter where I am). 

 

Of course, that will only matter to those who want or need the phone to function with all the latest versions of apps etc, otherwise the phone will last as long as it's physically able to.

 

The physical design also makes them more susceptible to damage, unfortunately. (Which, of course, means there's a massive market out there for protective gear for phones - cases, screen protectors etc, previously stuff like that was usually optional and mostly for aesthetics). 

 

There are brands / models that are kinda designed to give people the latest, until the next latest comes out (I'd personally never spends hundreds buying an iPhone, I do have a Samsung Galaxy but it was a cheaper one so it isn't one of the models that competes with Apple in that market). I've also tried to move away from buying too cheap on anything though, mostly because I'm tired of buying products that are essentially designed to be disposable, most of the time it costs more rather quickly, and it's such a waste of materials etc as well.

 

Nokia is actually coming back with a new phone, who made their name with long-lasting and nearly indestructable phones, but couldn't quite keep up with Apple, Samsung, etc, it'll be interesting to see what that's like, and I'm sure there's other brands around that focus on quality, longevity etc. 

 

You can still get more traditional phones, eg made for phone calls and texting pretty much, but they're often extremely cheap (eg I see them in Coles etc for as little as $9), so I didn't have much confidence in their ability to last a decent amount of time. 

Message 10 of 21
Latest reply