Buyer demanding refund for item after posted, due to change of mind

[itr224]

Hi All.

I have sold a genuine retail version of windows vista to a fellow ebayer. Transaction went smoothly, payment received via paypal, item posted and received by buyer.

Three days after delivery, the buyer messages me asking for a refund for the item as Windows will no longer be supporting vista with updates etc in April 2017.

This is her message to me:

'Hi. I didn't know when I bought this that it would be useless in April and most certainly wouldn't have paid what I did had I known. I would therefore like to return the software as it is useless.
Sorry for the inconvenience but I think I have a right to a refund under the circumstances.

It won't be supported by Microsoft. I contacted the Microsoft community about another issue and was advised to use Windows 7 minimum because there won't be any updates, I won't be able to use chrome and basically there will be a lot of security issues. I don't understand the technical details but this is what the Microsoft community told me. I had no idea.I can't explain beyond that. Sorry.'

I have politely declined a refund to buyer as there is actually nothing wrong with the copy of windows vista ultimate that was sold.

My reasoning:

1) Windows Vista was released in 2006, it is common knowledge that this is not the latest software, any ebayer bidding on an item is responsible to research the product they are bidding on and ensuring it is suitable for their needs. There was nothing wrong with this copy of windows vista that was sold to warrant a refund.

2) From my persepctive it is common knowledge that Microsoft eventually will stop support for older operating systems, this would have been apparent should the buyer have done the adequate research before bidding.

2) There is nothing wrong with this genuine retail copy of windows vista, it has a genuine product key, functions as an operating system and will continue to do so regardless of Microsoft support cut off.

Since declining a refund due to a change of mine and lack of research on the buyers part, the buyer has become agressive to myself, this is the latest message she has left.

'The software is not worth what I paid. I can get windows for just a few dollars more. I am just about to leave feedback.
Cheers '

Since this message she has left POSITIVE feeback on my account with the following comment:

'Cannot recommend this seller. He tried to rip me off. Paypal claim opened.'

I still fail to understand how i tried to rip this buyer off, when the listing was set at $10 no reserve and the buyer herself was bidding up to the winning price on her own accord.

I have contacted ebay about this feedback comment and they advised nothing can be done as it was a positive rating.

Would like to hear the communities thoughts on this situation about who is in the right/wrong and any advice going forward.

Thanks

[davewil1964]

There are no reserves on eBay for media, so of course you didn't have one.

i don't know what to answer.

You were selling an almost obsolete operating system, which presumably you knew. Why hadn't you used this copy in the time since you bought it. If you did, you have no right to sell it in the first place. Why would you sell it? Would you sell a copy of XP (a far superior OS, btw), which IS obsolete?

Why would you expect somebody to buy it in the first place? After all it was almost obsolete, plus it is in the negative half of the alternating Windows OSs. Every second one is totally useless and Vista is in this half.

I would also question the intelligence of the buyer. Why would they buy a copy of a Windows OS from anybody but Microsoft or an authorised retailer?

Some more information might well elicit a more positive response...

[lyndal1838]

I am with Dave on this.....don't quite know how to answer.

As far as the feedback goes, give it a while to see if there is a dispute opened.   When things have settled down you can try again to have the feedback removed on the grounds that there is mention of a dispute....this is not allowed in feedback and is grounds for removal.

Edit...don't rush in to leave a followup to the feedback.  Sometimes ebay will remove feedback but not the followup and this has the potential to be more damaging than the original feedback.

[lyndal1838]

Oh dear, I see you have left the buyer a false positive feedback.   You could be sanctioned for this if the buyer reports it.

I suggest you read the rules for leaving feedback before you get into any more trouble.

[skyrider12-au]

---

@davewil1964 wrote:

There are no reserves on eBay for media, so of course you didn't have one.

i don't know what to answer.

You were selling an almost obsolete operating system, which presumably you knew. Why hadn't you used this copy in the time since you bought it. If you did, you have no right to sell it in the first place. Why would you sell it? Would you sell a copy of XP (a far superior OS, btw), which IS obsolete?

Why would you expect somebody to buy it in the first place? After all it was almost obsolete, plus it is in the negative half of the alternating Windows OSs. Every second one is totally useless and Vista is in this half.

I would also question the intelligence of the buyer. Why would they buy a copy of a Windows OS from anybody but Microsoft or an authorised retailer?

Some more information might well elicit a more positive response...

---

Plenty of questions in your helpful cross examination - You didn't have an answer for the OPs question yet you persisted in your  usual, most impressive, manner.. The OP is quite right to sell, what-ever .... The buyer has the right to buy, whatever, and for whatever reason, for all you know the buyer could have been a collector of operating systems. It's not up to you to question the intelligence, or motives for selling, or buying. If you can't give the OP a plausable answer, why don't you just stay out of it?

[digital*ghost]

I agree with most of your points, at the very least in theory. Lots of people have a use for software that is no longer supported with updates by the developers (the reasons are varied, and largely irrelevant to this particular case, IMO, at least in terms of questioning why it was listed for sale), so I don't see any issue with selling it if it was a genuine and new, (read: unused) copy. 

I'm 50/50 on the point about buyers doing their own research about important information for a product, though wouldn't go so far as to agree with everything the buyer is saying / suggesting.

On the one hand, some things absolutely should be researched properly prior to purchase. You can't include absolutely everything in every listing (by which I mean, you can include specs / requirements etc, but you can't tell any and every one whether the software is going to be suitable for their needs. Some products have additional information that isn't suitable for descriptions*). I wouldn't buy any software unless I had researched it thoroughly, and in the process of doing that, I'm sure I would have discovered the impending withdrawl of support on my own.

On the other hand, part of the responsibility of a seller is to provide important information about the products they're selling. So conversely, if I was selling as opposed to buying, I would include that info in the description as a big, bold warning at the top of the page, if for no reason other than it would go a long way to ensure I don't have to deal with someone who isn't inclined to independently research the software they're buying. 

So while technically, it counts as a change of mind, the omission of the info would lead me to be at least a little empathetic with the buyer and accept some (not all) of the responsibility, as such (just speaking personally) I would accept the return and issue a refund of the original payment.  

*I'm referring to general property kind of info. Like for example a blue cotton t shirt. Sellers list them as blue, and made from cotton, but they rarely (if ever) say where the cotton is sourced, or explain how it's processed and woven into fabric, nor what it's dyed with. 

[davewil1964]

As you are free to never answer a question, but only slag off at posters who do. A privilege you take full advantage of.

As you have not offered the OP a solution, either, why have YOU bothered to post? Maybe you could provide a solution that us mere mortals have missed.

[thecatspjs]

I'm with you OP particularly as it was an auction listing starting at $10 the price was pushed up a buyer that had not done their homework.

You can request that the feedback comment is removed, as it mentions the paypal dispute which is grounds for removal - even if feedback received is positive.  If removed they will likely leave the positive rating with a blank space where the comment would normally be.  

[lizzys-allsorts]

I am going to agree with the OP.. The buyer should have researched properly before purchasing.

There are reasons why people want to buy older operating systems. Retro PC gamers come to mind.

I have a machine embroidery design computer program on an old laptop running XP, to upgrade the embroidery program would cost me over $500... so I will keep running XP.

Another reason why I would politely refuse a refund is, the buyer may have registered the copy of Vista which means it cannot be used on a 2nd PC. If the seller accepts a return they cannot resell the software as the registration key has been used.

Vista will still run and can be used, it just means Microsoft have ceased releasing updates.

[thecatspjs]

Yes - the auction had 5 other bidders - so there is interest out there for the goods.

If it was a buy it now, or an auction that had no interest, I would probably think differently, but not in this case when the price started low, and there were other bidders for the goods. 

The buyer has over 1000 feedback, so its not like its a newbie going a bit cray cray on an auction. 

The listing had no returns.