Buyer wants refund - 'item not as described'

[stylelookbook]

Hi all,

I've encountered a problem with a recent buyer and thought I'd come on the boards for some advice.

This buyer purchased an authentic branded belt from me after many negotiations of prices, and saying that she seems to have seen some marks (which I cleaned and showed her afterwards), she eventually agreed and purchased the item.

When she received the item however, she sent a message which had some very random accusations:

1. I sold a skinny belt - she claimed that the 'skinny' was not mentioned nor described - but it was clearly shown in both the title and the description. She also got back to my response in  a later message claiming that I deceived people of the way I had photographed my images, and that I made the belt look thicker than it is from the way I have placed it on a box when taking my photos.

I had kindly asked her as to why she hadn't asked all questions before she made the decision to purchase - seeing she had gone out of her way to bargain for an item that is barely worn and was already listed at a very valuable price for the condition it was in.

2. She claimed the belt was not in a near-new condition (as I have described) because apparently the leather of the belt is so soggy already and the area around the holes are bent - this is definitely not true. I asked her to provide photos, and she claimed that she also found scratches on the leather and so on.

HOWEVER, when looking at the photos she sent, it matched her claims as I can see from the pictures, but the key point is - it definitely isn't in the same condition when I packaged and sent it. I had all members of my family check over the belt - it was fine.

Now she wants a partial refund or a full refund because - she thinks that it was not worth what she paid for - she claimed that she only spent around $400-$500 on a brand new one purchased at a boutique - which I doubt.

The nagging thought is - even if I had agreed to a refund and she had send back the belt - it would not be in its original condition and I'm afraid I can't even resell it again, as I can tell from the latest photos she sent. I'm very disappointed as to how this turned out, I had a bad feeling when she kept wanting to negotiate, but I'd thought since she had finally agreed and purchased the item, it has to be fine.

Any advice is extremely welcome, thank you for reading.

[clarry100]

When buyers make these kind of INAD claims on ebay they will notoriously side with the buyer unfortunately.

INAD claims like this are extremely difficult to defend against.

Your original listing needs to fully document and picture any & all defects no matter how trivial they seem to you.

Use up every one of the 12 pics allowed.

I'm thinking at the moment she has not yet opened a formal return case and that the claims are via ebay messages so far. Correct?

If she does open a formal INAD case you will basically have a few options.

a). If the item is worth you having back you will have to pay for fully tracked return postage. Only issue any refund after the item is received back. Have a credible independent witness present when you open the package. If its not in the same condition you sent it take plenty of clear pics and have the witness sign a stat dec saying that.

b). Issue a full refund and the buyer keeps the item. Suspect this may not be what you want to do tho.

c). Negotiate a partial refund with the buyer to "compensate" for the claimed defects.

If she wants you to refund under threat of leaving bad feedback keep any such messages. They can be used to argue feedback extortion. This might help your case.

Since you have to either refund or accept the return anyway get her to do it via a formal INAD case. You don't get any defect these days when a case is opened, just if you don't solve it and ebay have to step in and do so. Making her open a formal case officially records this on her buying account. If she is a repeat offender she may not want to go this way as it would "out" her.

That's about it really. Not a good situation to be in but that's selling on ebay these days.

[stylelookbook]

I have expected that, but the sad thing is - there were no defects on the belt from when I listed it up until the date I posted it, none of the flaws she shown in those photos were present when the belt was still in my hands.

Yes - she has not yet opened a case, I think I would rather have the item back and refund her fully, I now know that the belt would not be in the same condition anymore - what chance do I have if a stat dec is signed?

Thanks for the info regarding feedback extortion - she had threatened to that already.

[digital*ghost]

How long has she had it? i.e. Was the purchase very recent, or has she had it long enough to have caused that kind of damage herself? If the former, it may not be the same belt you sent her if it's in significantly different condition (the switcheroo is unfortunately not unheard of on eBay 😞 )

At this point, I would not let someone harass me into complying with whatever they want. I would send them a simple, clear and confident message outlining what they need to do, and what I can do.

Since they have provided photos, is there anything that can show whether or not it either is or isn't the same belt? Is there any visual evidence that can indicate the nature of the damage, whether it's time-worn, buyer-inflicted due to misuse, i.e. anything that can counter her claims that this is the belt you sent and in the condition you sent (hopefully, when they were asking about the belt prior to purchase, you took and kept lots of photos of the areas she was talking about?)

The original and additional images can act as proof of the condition the belt was sent in (even if a dispute is opened and eBay / PayPal don't see it that way), so you could also advise the buyer you have retained enough proof to unequivocally prove the belt was exactly as described and not sent in the condition she is claiming, and that if she insists on attempting to force a return or refund, her activities will be reported to ACORN, a federal agency that investigates online fraud. 

Edited to add:....Oh, and take the power of feedback away from her. Everytime someone messages me and threatens a neg, I just say they're welcome to leave whatever feedback they like. This lets them know immediately that the threat does absolutely nothing in regards to coercing me into doing what they want. 

[clarry100]

Very comprehensive and sound advice there as always DG.

Hopefully the OP has enough pics of the item as listed/sent to help to fight any INAD case that would seem apparently forthcoming.

INAD cases can be won but they are difficult and time consuming to fight.

Yes... You need plenty of irrefutable evidence.

Edited to add...

A stat dec is likely only helpful if you go down the track of eventually making a police report thru The ACORN.

https://www.acorn.gov.au/

[curraone]

---

@stylelookbook wrote:

Hi all,

I've encountered a problem with a recent buyer and thought I'd come on the boards for some advice.

This buyer purchased an authentic branded belt from me after many negotiations of prices, and saying that she seems to have seen some marks (which I cleaned and showed her afterwards), she eventually agreed and purchased the item.

1. I sold a skinny belt - she claimed that the 'skinny' was not mentioned nor described - but it was clearly shown in both the title and the description. She also got back to my response in  a later message claiming that I deceived people of the way I had photographed my images, and that I made the belt look thicker than it is from the way I have placed it on a box when taking my photos.

Now she wants a partial refund or a full refund because - she thinks that it was not worth what she paid for - she claimed that she only spent around $400-$500 on a brand new one purchased at a boutique - which I doubt.

---

These two points are worth discussing before you do anything.

1.   The item specifically says "skinny" and the buyer says it doesn't.    So she cannot claim "not as described" in respect to skinny.

2.   I hope it is not the buyer I had who gave me a neutral "because the photo made it look bigger".   Ebay removed that for me.

3.   Also grounds for removal is the other point - "an unrelated transaction"  is also grounds for removal.   The fact that she could buy it elsewhere is not relevant.

[performance_parts_clearance_centre]

I'd be deeply suspicious of a con - buyer has an old, worn belt, shops around for an identical new one, puts in an INAD dispute, sends you their **bleep**py old belt as the "return", and winds up with a nice new one for free...

[kane1417]

I have had similar buyers in the past.They do the dance over price before buying, are happy to purchase in the condition stated, then when they receive the item, start playing up as to the condition etc and start demanding part refunds.For this reason my refund policy is now strictly 'Full Refund Only' given.Your buyer is happy to accept a part refund, they are therefore happy to keep the item and in the condition it is apparently in and you would assume they are happy to use the item.I would not give a part refund.I would ask for item to returned by signature on delivery mail (Includes a tracking number), then give them a full refund.Your buyer would then be free to search out a similar item elsewhere and I would wish them all the luck doing so !You can purchase black light marker pens for around $ 5 (Pen and key ring size UV light) and can use them to start marking your items before posting.I use them all the time on my items, it is security against false claims on item condition etc and item substitution on returns.Only I know what items I mark (and where I mark the item) especially on high value $$ items and  where buyer has started exhibiting the tell tale signs of playing around during the  purchase process.I take a photo showing the black light mark for my records (but don't post this in the listing).You will on ebay ,unfortunately, come across buyers like yours.E bay has created a selling platform which allows and encourages this behaviour.All the best for your end result with this sale.

[designers*n*more]

Buyer can't claim for the "skinny" SNAD but can claim for the belt holes.

i would ring eBay before she opens a dispute (use the call back method) and just advise them what the situation is.

Unfortunately eBays response in disputes such as this is "we don't physically see the item so we take the buyers side....."  

At least if you ring eBay you cane see what you're up against

[ono_4u]

HOWEVER, when looking at the photos she sent, it matched her claims as I can see from the pictures, but the key point is - it definitely isn't in the same condition when I packaged and sent it. I had all members of my family check over the belt - it was fine.

Why not call the buyer out for their lies?