Scam from Italian Buyer

[baysports612]

Beware of a buyer in Italy

Buys an item in mint condition and then complains that item is damaged and wants me to refund his money without sending the item back. I offer full refund on return of item.

He then opens a case for a refund through paypal.

I receive my initial package in return mail with all the packaging BUT the item an COA has not been returned.

Scam of keeping item and getting full refund........new form of shoplifting.

[phorum_junkie*]

You need to call Paypal and tell them you did not receive all of the item back and you don't see why the buyer should get anything until all the original contents are received, not just the packaging. If they refuse to do anything ask to speak to a supervisor. If you still get nowhere try again a few hours later, dome staff are more helpful than others.

If you still get nowhere tell them you are prepared to send them a stat dec confirming that the item was not returned. If they still say no then just tell them that if they do not find in your favour you will be contacting the FOS to lodge a complaint.

I would also put Italy on your exclusion list of countries you do not post to, there are a lot of complaints of parcels going missing and being 'lost' by there customs and delivery services.

[digital*ghost · Accepted solution]

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@baysports612 wrote:

I receive my initial package in return mail with all the packaging BUT the item an COA has not been returned.

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Did the buyer pay for shipping from Italy to Aus, and provide a tracking number to PayPal? (Just asking in case they did something like RTS the empty package, which would leave them without proof of postage).

I recently had to deal with something similar, only in my case I knew the package didn't contain my products as soon as I received it so I didn't open it until I could take a visual record of the package being opened and showing the contents.

Now, the only thing you can do, if the buyer had provided proof of shipping to PayPal, is take the empty packaging to the police and file a report (they won't be able to do anything to the buyer, but you actually want the report number to give to PayPal). Take as many photos of the packaging as necessary, if you can show things like the declared / official weight of the returned package doesn't match the item you posted and so on.

For good measure, fill out and get a stat dec witnessed as PJ suggests, then contact PayPal to provide them with all of your documents - the buyer may still be refunded, but if you have the above, PayPal might also decide to cover the cost and not take it from your account (if they refund the buyer from your account, you can dispute it both with the evidence, and via the Financial Ombudsman Service  https://www.fos.org.au/)

[typhoon4u]

In the future, if your suspect about the return, don't accept delivery (to show you havn't tampered with it) and open it infront of a PO manager.

You need to prove what was returned was wrong.

[phorum_junkie* · Accepted solution]

In the past Paypal have accepted a Stat Dec as proof of getting an empty parcel back, especially when a report to the Ombudsman is promised if they don't believe it. I would try that before I went to the bother of going to the police station and insisting they record it as a complaint and give you a crime number which Paypal will also accept as proof.

As I said before always try more than once, late evening is good as you will sometimes get through to an American advvisor when you ask to speak to a supervisor. If they do agree to finding in your favour or give you a discretionary payment if the buyer has already been refunded make sure you note the time along with the name and employee number (just ask for it, they will give it to you no problem) then if it is not done you can quote the information so they can pull up the call and verify what you were promised. I had to do that twice after a refund never appeared and they denied offfering it when I phoned back.

[digital*ghost · Accepted solution]

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@phorum_junkie* wrote:

In the past Paypal have accepted a Stat Dec as proof of getting an empty parcel back, especially when a report to the Ombudsman is promised if they don't believe it. I would try that before I went to the bother of going to the police station and insisting they record it as a complaint and give you a crime number which Paypal will also accept as proof.

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It depends on what stage the dispute is at, and/or what's more important to the OP, not losing money, or not losing money and trying to prevent the buyer from keeping the goods and getting a refund.

A stat dec has to be accepted as a truthful sworn statement, but usually results in "discretionary" refunds or credits. A police report is generally taken more seriously, and is far more likely to prevent the buyer from gaining a refund, which would be my primary aim in this kind of situation. 

[baysports612]

Thank you for the info. Will be taking your advice

[baysports612]

Thank you.