eBay Satchel + lodging over counter <> Seller Protection

[mpemberley]

Sold an item. Paid for with PayPal. Used an eBay satchel. Printed label via eBay. Lodged over the counter at post office. Receipt received. Item not delivered. Tracking shows "In Transit". Query lodged. Aus Post can't find it.

Item not received claim resolved in favour of the buyer. Money deducted from our PayPal account.

"Seller Protection" - caveat emptor.

[thecatspjs]

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@bigbrickshop wrote:

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@mpemberley wrote:

We will indeed ring PayPal in the morning and see what they have to say.

We have already appealed their decision online, supplying them with;

 - Australia Post lodgement receipt

 - eBay Packing Slip showing PayPal address

 - Tax Invoice from eBay showing the link between the item number and the Australia Post tracking number

This was rapidly declined with the reason that the supplied proof of postage does not show the buyer's shipping address.

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- Australia Post lodgement receipt

+

the Postage Label Created email from eBay which shows the full details including shipping address and tracking number

Should be enough as Proof of Shipment for PayPal. I haven't had to test it though.

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If you don't save a copy of the label at the time though ??? You can not view them after a relatively short time frame.

[bigbrickshop]

We have never had to keep a copy of the actual label. A stamped Aus Post lodgement receipt with name and address has always been accepted as proof of shipment in the past.

The email which includes name, address and tracking number together with the matching lodgement receipt should provide the same proof of shipment.

[bigbrickshop]

I might ask for something in writing from PayPal to confirm if this meets the requirements for Seller Protection.

I also wonder about C&S. We no longer get lodgement receipts when payment is made online and parcels are lodged over the counter.

[clarry100]

That's right.

Now that we are unable to get lodgement receipts for over-the-counter C&S items, what is our proof of sending?

Is the copy of the info you get st the time you generate the lable that counts.

This has the tracking number and all the address details on it. So the tracking number is linked to the buyer's address thru this.

But still does not prove you actually physically sent it.

Although, if you lodge over the counter it creates a track event on lodgement.

Is that in itself sufficient?

[lane-ends]

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@clarry100 wrote:

That's right.

Now that we are unable to get lodgement receipts for over-the-counter C&S items, what is our proof of sending?

Is the copy of the info you get st the time you generate the lable that counts.

This has the tracking number and all the address details on it. So the tracking number is linked to the buyer's address thru this.

But still does not prove you actually physically sent it.

Although, if you lodge over the counter it creates a track event on lodgement.

Is that in itself sufficient?

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As long as you have a copy of the label, or can access on line, the label has address and linked tracking number. Then there is an AP activity scan/receipt that shows this tracking no was lodged,  this proves that label with that address was sent to buyer. Save a copy of all shipping labels to ensure you have them available

[mpemberley]

UPDATE: After calmly and politely discussing the situation at some length with a supervisor at PayPal, we have received a *discretionary* refund.

It was made very clear to us during the conversation that:

eBay Australia Post satchels ARE NOT ELIGIBLE for PayPal Seller Protection

Seller Protection requires;

 - a receipt

 - a date

 - a postcode

on the one piece of paper

Ringing up PayPal or involving the Financial Services Ombudsman MAY get you a *discretionary* refund.

We got lucky this time, but will readjust our risk management accordingly and use the "Extra Cover" option for items of significant value we send in eBay satchels from now on.

A brilliant write-up from "the3coopers" can be found here;

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2206525

Thanks to all here for their advice.

[digital*ghost]

the3coopers is a very knowledgeable eBay member, and was/is a valued member of this community (he hasn't posted here for a while, though).

But I just want to mention a couple of things - 

As far as I know, a receipt is not a requirement, it is one of the acceptable documents that can help establish Proof of postage. PayPal need to know an article was addressed to the right person, and that the article which was addressed correctly was lodged into the system, and a receipt is but one way to show them that. 

A copy of the shipping label (which you can have if you save the PDF that is generated, or print twice to keep one for your records) showing address and tracking number, plus a lodgement receipt or tracking status for that number showing at least one scan event (not just initiated) is all that should be required to establish those two things, regardless of what a PayPal rep might say. The lodgement receipt is definitely preferable, though, because it lasts well beyond the online tracking and chargebacks can occur up to 12 months after the transaction.

I have continued to get lodgement receipts for my C&S parcels, so if anyone is being told they can't get them, ask your AP staff to call customer service to find out how to do it (the computer system was changed a little while ago, and the method to do lodgement receipts changed, it is however still more than possible). 

Express post is just as eligible for seller protection as any other postage method, if you do it the right way. It's available both on eBay and via C&S so you get proof of addressee and can then lodge it to prove it was handed over to the carrier, and over the counter you can add on things like signature on delivery to get proof of postage (even to the pre-paid satchels). Express post in own packaging, over the counter, should also give you a lodgement receipt where you can fill in adressee details and get it stamped by AP to verify lodgement. 

[bigbrickshop]

d*g, are you able to get lodgement receipts for C&S items paid online?

We can only get them for Own Packaging parcels paid at the PO.

[digital*ghost]

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@bigbrickshop wrote:

d*g, are you able to get lodgement receipts for C&S items paid online?

We can only get them for Own Packaging parcels paid at the PO.

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Yes, the last time I lodged a C&S parcel that I paid for online was just after the system changed and people started saying they couldn't get lodgement receipts anymore, but I was given one, and to the best of my knowledge it's still possible, but the process to do it is a little different than it used to be. Since then, if I have to use a parcel I've been using the eBay labels for the 10% rebate, and I get lodgement receipts for those, too, not sure if the no lodgements receipts thing is only affecting C&S for others, but there is basically not one online label-creating system I've used (and I've used C&S and eBay for a range of different services in the last couple of months) where I haven't received a lodgement receipt. 

[bigbrickshop]

Thanks, I'll have to get my LPO staff to have a look into it. We've still been using C&S for the 5kg satchels and 3kg express satchels and any non eBay sales sent in Own Packaging.