eBay Satchel + lodging over counter <> Seller Protection

[mpemberley]

Sold an item. Paid for with PayPal. Used an eBay satchel. Printed label via eBay. Lodged over the counter at post office. Receipt received. Item not delivered. Tracking shows "In Transit". Query lodged. Aus Post can't find it.

Item not received claim resolved in favour of the buyer. Money deducted from our PayPal account.

"Seller Protection" - caveat emptor.

[digital*ghost]

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@thecatspjs wrote:
Agree DG ... I have little doubt that a Paypal rep lost in translation the actual policy intent / guidelines / application

A very important matter to get further advice on !!!! Via both eBay and further up the Paypal hierarchy.

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I suspect the same, I'm certainly very interested in PayPal and/or eBay clarifying this. 

am*3 - you can add things like insurance and signature on delivery to the pre-paid satchels, just as you can for the eBay or C&S labels, but AP should only really "wash their hands" of a missing package, for lack of a better term, if it was actually delivered according to the service(s) that were paid for. Their compensation is discretionary, and often they'll just offer the cost of postage, but they definitely shouldn't dismiss it if the item was never even scanned as delivered.

The eBay label itself contains all the addressee details, so I always keep a copy when I generate them - it shows the tracking number as well, and that can be cross-referenced with an online status or lodgement receipt to establish proof of postage. Or, should be, at any rate. 

[thecatspjs]

If sellers need to retain, for seller protection, a copy of original label that is generation, IMO eBay should flag this SOMEWHERE

[dylan11235813]

I actually thought it would be stored and would never need to actually keep a copy. Thats to say if it is even covered by paypal seller protection anyway and if not there is no point using them and I might as well just pay at the post office like the OP has suggested.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

Do you know what I think the problem is really?????

Ebayers who ring paypal more than once to clarify a situation when if you read and understood your user agreement you

would already know the requirements backwards.

Ring paypal once. if they fob you off with some obviously lame excuse...do not threaten to go to the FOS

LODGE A COMPLAINT...... IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE...... BY ASKING FOR A SUPERVISOR THEN LISTENING TO

THE DRIVEL AND THEN BEING GIVEN A "DISCRETIONARY "  REFUND PLAYS DIRECTLTY INTO PAYPALS

OBFUSCATORY HANDS.

ENOUGH COMPLAINTS TO THE FOS AND THEY  PULL THE REALLY BIG STICK OUT.....

iT'S CALLED WILFUL CONDUCT

OBFUSCATORY ADVICE IS DESIGNED TO TURN THE SHY AWAY...FOB YOU OFF SO TO SP[EAK...HOPING YOU

WILL GO AWAY WITH YOUR TAIL BEWTEEN YOUR LEGS....AND MANY DO

Does not anybody think that it is a tad hypocritical to be a uniquely large online payment service that cannot solve any

customer problems online??? ie.......the first advice when the brown stuff hits the fan is to "ring them" and then "ask for

a supervisor....... If paypal was a new company then I could understand. Paypal has been around for yonks yet the

complaints re poor customer service are perennial when there is a problem or needing to quote to paypal staff their

own policies is an indictment of paypals lack of duty of care.............

rant over........

paypal customer service will never get any better while you do not let the authorities know who can

put pressure on them to fix the problem. I guess the difference is there are some who just want their money and their

are others who not only want thier money but they want the poor customer service fixed so that they do not need to go

through the process again

http://www.fos.org.au/resolving-disputes/before-you-lodge-a-dispute/

Many complaints can be fixed quickly once you make contact with your financial services provider (eg your bank, insurer, financial planner or other type of provider of financial services).

Your financial services provider will have a complaints area that you can contact by phone, email or letter.  You should explain what your complaint is about and what you would like the outcome of your complaint to be.

Before we can consider the dispute, your financial services provider must be given an opportunity to resolve the dispute with you directly.

In most cases, the financial services provider has up to 45 days to respond to your complaint. If your dispute concerns difficulty you are experiencing meeting repayments to a credit facility (for example your  mortgage or credit card), the financial services provider has up to 21 days to respond

So if they respond and say no....dob them in....simple

[colic2bullsgirlore]

Does the problem below sound familiar...staright from the FOS site....... So who else thinks paypals poor customer

service re seller protection could be classified as anything but a SYSTEMIC ISSUE

http://www2.fos.org.au/centric/the_circular_4_home/systemic_issues.jsp

Systemic Issues Systemic Issues and Serious MisconductFOS Responsibility

Under ASIC Regulatory Guide 139, FOS is obliged to identify, resolve and report on systemic issues and serious misconduct.

A systemic issue is defined in FOS’s Terms of Reference as an issue that will have an effect on people beyond the parties to a dispute.
 
Serious misconduct is defined as conduct that may be fraudulent or grossly negligent or may involve wilful breaches

of applicable laws or obligations under the Terms of Reference.

By dealing effectively with systemic issues and serious misconduct, FOS can raise industry standards and help

consumers to obtain fair compensation for financial losses.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

So I wondered how the FOS could identify the problem if it is rarely reported?? Don't you

Under ASIC Regulatory Guide 139, FOS is obliged to identify, resolve and report on systemic issues and serious

misconduct.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

Even if you get a discretionary refund you can still complain re paypals help desk and the staffs poor knowledge of local

paypal policy especially when incorrect advice is initially given

Obfuscation (or beclouding) is the hiding of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing,

willfully ambiguous, and harder to interpret.

ebay and paypal "the obfuscation experts"

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@mpemberley wrote:

Stating it again, eBay 500g and 3kg Australia Post satchels DO NOT QUALIFY for PayPal Seller Protection.

If you use them, even if you lodge over the counter, and the item is not delivered, YOU WILL LOSE an Item Not Received dispute.

If you use them, even if you lodge over the counter, and a credit card chargeback is done YOU WILL LOSE your money.

This is regardless of the fact that eBay heavily promotes using their postage and there is a widespread fallacious belief that this makes you eligible for Seller Protection.

This is regardless of how *you* interpret PayPal's pages on the matter. PayPal do not care what *you* think. We thought we were covered, too. Nope. Now we know better.

Use eBay postage and you are NOT covered by PayPal Seller Protection.

Lodge and Pay Over The Counter at a Post Office for parcels and you ARE covered by PayPal Seller Protection.

Again:

- official receipt

- date of lodgement

- buyer's address, which must match the PayPal address at the time of purchase [Australia Post receipt with the correct postcode is acceptable]

all on the one piece of paper.

Otherwise you lose.

Risk manage your postage as you see fit. *We* will be walking to the post office a LOT more from now on and not bothering with eBay 500g satchels once our current supplies run out.

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Do you know mpemberley how I know that the paypal supervisor has their head firmly implanted with tongue in cheek

up their posterior???

If the Australia post tracking advice states delivered to the buyers postcode then you have... on the australia post

tracking advice

The ebay receipt for the label print

The date the item was lodged

the postcode it was delivered to

and...After reading my user agreement there is no clauae that states that documentation needs to appear on one piece

of paper. When they include it in my user agreement I will worry about it then......... But until then they need to honour

the user agreeement as well

link to definitions in user agreement
https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#27_Definitions_and_interpretation

definition of proof of shipment link for your user agreement
https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/customer-concerns

link to proof of shipping definition
https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/customer-concerns
What is proof of shipment?

At the very least, your documentation must include:

    The date the item was sent; and
    An official acceptance by the shipper, such as a postmark or online status. (Status that shows the item was delivered is also acceptable.)

It must also include either:

    The recipient’s delivery address, showing at least the state, city and postcode (or international equivalent); or
    A receipt from Australia Post showing at least the recipient’s suburb, city or postcode (or international equivalent)

When they include "on one piece of paper or on one document" into my user agreement proof of shipping definition then I will comply...... until then they can go suck eggs...

[dylan11235813]

so everyone should just contact the FSO and not bother even complaining to paypal?

[colic2bullsgirlore]

as the FOS advice suggests

Your financial services provider will have a complaints area that you can contact by phone, email or letter. 

You should explain what your complaint is about and what you would like the outcome of your complaint to be.

Before we can consider the dispute, your financial services provider must be given an opportunity to resolve the

dispute with you directly.

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I would ring them once, on the same phonecall escalate your complaint to a supervisor if you do not get the

outcome you believe is warranted or correct.

If they still say no ...then lodge a complaint with the FOS.........

As long as you have interpreted your user agreement correctly you will get your money bacj and paypal will have

a cross against their name at the FOS.

You should include in the complaint the inferior advice that you were initially given and the fact that that "wrong"

advice was reinforced by a supervisor.

If you get a "discretionary" refund you can still lodge a complaint if you believe that the refund was required and

not discretionary. You can also complain about the conflicting advice you were given by the customer service

rep.

It's always the squeaky wheel that gets all the oil