topic Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working. in Community Spirit

Looks like the PNG solution is working.

i-need-a-martini — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 21:01:54 GMT

I'm surprised it is making an impact so soon. Whilst I am still no agreeng with the policy in it's entirety, if it means that we have less people in vulnerable positions at sea then that has to be a win.

Tough policies preventing settlement in Australia appear to be deterring asylum seekers, with signs of boat arrivals tapering off and reports of people demanding refunds from people smugglers.

...And a senior Defence source said that arrivals appeared to be tapering off since Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced his hardline solution of sending asylum seekers to Papua New Guinea. The highly placed source noted that poor weather was also a factor but was unlikely to account for the extent of the downturn.

One asylum seeker in Indonesia told Fairfax Media that people smugglers could now find ''hardly any'' people willing to board their boats.

Boat arrivals have been down about a quarter since Mr Rudd announced the PNG plan. But that includes a massive spike in the week after the plan was announced, with about 1250 arrivals in those seven days, including six boats with nearly 500 passengers in one day.

Mr Burke: ''There is no doubt that the message is getting through. For everything that's been attempted in the past with people smugglers, it's become clear that the only way to affect them is to take their product away and to take their customers away. When I say the demands for money back are widespread, they are absolutely widespread.''

A senior Defence source said there did appear to be a slowing of arrivals, although poor weather to Australia's north was likely having an influence.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

***super_nova*** — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 21:45:43 GMT

Great, I did not think it would impact so soon. I thought it will take some people sent to PNG getting in touch with friends still in Indonesia and the word spreading that our government is not joking.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

*mrgrizz* — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 22:51:35 GMT

what a lot of propaganda.

"appears"

"journalist spoke to a asylum seeker"

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

tulip*place — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:13:53 GMT

people demanding refunds from people smugglers.

and the people smugglers offering an apology with the refund...... yea right.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

i-need-a-martini — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:19:46 GMT

@*mrgrizz* wrote:
what a lot of propaganda.
"appears"
"journalist spoke to a asylum seeker"

The irony of classing this as propaganda when we have to read all the rest of the one sided negative rubbish posted on this site is astounding lol!

Immigration Minister issues a statement saying there has been a decrease.
A journalist investigating backs up his statement with their findings.
And then a Defence forces spokesman backs both of them up.

Yeah. Real propaganda.

After that initial flurry in the first week, the rate of boats arriving has dropped significantly. And boats are leaving only a third full. Perhaps that is just a 3 week glitch and it won't make an ounce of difference long term. Who knows.

But at this stage, yes it certainly does 'appear' to me that it is taking effect.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

i-need-a-martini — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:23:04 GMT

@tulip*place wrote:

and the people smugglers offering an apology with the refund...... yea right.

And where does the article say that exactly?

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

*mrgrizz* — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:26:26 GMT

the sky "appears" blue but it is not

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

izabsmiling — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 01:38:46 GMT

Appearances can be deceptive

Some points from

Muslim in Australia: A Historia Perspective by Aisha Stacey

*a map of the Sea of Java by Muhammad Ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi circa 820 CE shows Cape York Peninsula, a V shaped Gulf of Carpentaria and a curved Arnhem Land. A later map, by Abu Isak Al-Farisi Istakhari 934 CE, also includes an outline of the northern coast of Australia. Muslims appear to have been aware of the great southern land approximately 900 years before colonial settlement.

*The first evidence of Muslims in Australia comes in the 17th century from the Macassan and Bugis traders from Sulawesi, in what is now known as Indonesia. They visited the coast of northern Australia for hundreds of years prior to British colonial settlement

* Muslims residing in Australia is portrayed as a relatively new occurrence, however, at that time they WERE among the sailors, convicts and settlers arriving in Australia from all parts of the British Empire.

* The Aboriginal people in the northern part of the continent, now known as Australia, formed bonds with Muslims from Indonesia and the Malay Peninsula as early as the 1600’s. However, the first significant Muslim community in colonial Australia was that of the Afghan cameleers.

*Zachariah Matthews, in his essay on Islam in Australia, states that the journals, diaries and reports of the early European explorers speak very highly of the Afghans and their strict adherence to the religion of Islam. They write of their excellent character, reliability, stamina and life-saving skills. He asserts that many of the explorers gladly acknowledged the debt owed to their camel-handlers.

*According to Bilal Cleland, in his History of Islam in Australia, Afghan Muslims participated in all the major explorations since 1860, including the last exploration of the interior, the Madigan expedition across the Simpson Desert in 1939. Apart from these heroic achievements, the cameleers were responsible for carting supplies, mail and even water to remote settlements. They had an important role in the development of infrastructure, such as the overland telegraph line between Adelaide and Darwin and the rail link between Port Augusta and Alice Springs, which became known as the Ghan.

*Although all cameleers in Australia were known as Afghans, they actually came from many different countries including Afghanistan, the area that is now known as Pakistan, Kashmir, Egypt, Persia, and Turkey. The cameleers were culturally and linguistically different. However, they were united by the religion of Islam.

*According to research carried out by Museum Victoria, at first the cameleers sheltered in small camps but little by little, they added elements from their homelands and religion. The camps became makeshift villages with mosques and religious teachers, halal butchers, vegetable gardens and date groves. These settlements sprung up on the outer edge of outback towns such as Broken Hill, Marree, Oodnadatta, Coolgardie and Bourke. The cameleers from these Ghan towns, as they were called, developed cross-cultural alliances with Aboriginal communities; relationships were formed and intermarriages were common. Even today, there are Aboriginal people with surnames such as Mahomed, Khan and Sultan.

*The first mosque in Australia was built to meet the needs of the Afghan cameleers. It was built at Marree in northern South Australia in 1861. Many of the outback settlements often referred to as Ghan towns had at least one mosque usually constructed from corrugated iron. The settlement’s social life was centred on the mosque; it provided a focal point for the cameleers as they moved from one Ghan town to the next. The first major mosque still in use was built in Adelaide in 1890. Another was built in Broken Hill (New South Wales) in 1891.

*The Broken Hill City Council’s Migration Heritage Centre describes Abdul Wade as the most successful of all the Afghan cameleers. He arrived in Australia in 1879, and by 1893 he had moved to Bourke and began importing camels and recruiting Afghan cameleers for the recently formed Bourke Camel Carrying Company. Dost Mahomet was another prominent Afghan camel driver who worked at Broken Hill. His grave lies three kilometres from Menindee, on the road to Broken Hill. He is thought to be the first Muslim to be buried on Australian soil.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

izabsmiling — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 01:43:37 GMT

If it's fair for some to say that an increased number is be due to Policy...a decrease in number would by that same measure be due to Policy also ?

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

azureline** — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 06:36:51 GMT

Did anyone see this guy on tv earlier in the week? no idea when or what channel, OH was watching and I was mesmerised.

He went back with prosthetic limbs and showed us the hospitals and the children who have no feet, no legs, no hands, from explosive devices..... just walking to school.

It gave me a new perspective on the life of civilians in Afghanistan......... and an understanding of why they would leave there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/world/asia/12photographer.html?_r=0

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

newstart2380 — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:18:08 GMT

@azureline** wrote:
Did anyone see this guy on tv earlier in the week? no idea when or what channel, OH was watching and I was mesmerised.
He went back with prosthetic limbs and showed us the hospitals and the children who have no feet, no legs, no hands, from explosive devices..... just walking to school.
It gave me a new perspective on the life of civilians in Afghanistan......... and an understanding of why they would leave there.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/world/asia/12photographer.html?_r=0

How can they walk to school wkithout legs or feet ? not trying to be facecious just wondering.

If the boats are slowing down that is great but where willthe people go who are waiting in Indonesia to catch a boat to Australia ? Indonesia can not support them nor has the space to house them.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

polksaladallie — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:20:05 GMT

@azureline** wrote:
Did anyone see this guy on tv earlier in the week? no idea when or what channel, OH was watching and I was mesmerised.
He went back with prosthetic limbs and showed us the hospitals and the children who have no feet, no legs, no hands, from explosive devices..... just walking to school.
It gave me a new perspective on the life of civilians in Afghanistan......... and an understanding of why they would leave there.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/world/asia/12photographer.html?_r=0

Yes, Azure, I saw it. 4 corners. Very sad, because of what war does to innocent civilians as well as the combatants.

But leaders of countries would be unfazed if they saw it, and wars will continue.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

azureline** — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:21:40 GMT

They stepped on mines walking to school......... I assume they had feet then.

Now, they wait months for prosthetics, basic ones, so they can learn to walk again, if they don't die from infection.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

kengillard — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:22:24 GMT

Isn't it called "collateral damage"....what a polite phrase.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

polksaladallie — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:22:48 GMT

@newstart2380 wrote:
How can they walk to school wkithout legs or feet ? not trying to be facecious just wondering.

Why can't children with prostheses go to school?

But what Azure said was that they were injured when doing nothing more than walking to school.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

mtnlane — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:26:37 GMT

If you were 'just wondering' perhaps you should have read the link or, perish the thought, searched out the programme to see for yourself rather than ask a question like that.

I am sure Azureline can answer for herself but I found your question appallingly insensitive and in very poor taste.

The young lad Azureline was referring to lost his left leg and left arm 'walking to school' when he stepped on a land mine.

Expand your horizons and watch the programme.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

i-need-a-martini — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:33:11 GMT

@azureline** wrote:
Did anyone see this guy on tv earlier in the week? no idea when or what channel, OH was watching and I was mesmerised.
He went back with prosthetic limbs and showed us the hospitals and the children who have no feet, no legs, no hands, from explosive devices..... just walking to school.
It gave me a new perspective on the life of civilians in Afghanistan......... and an understanding of why they would leave there.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/world/asia/12photographer.html?_r=0

I saw it too az.

The stats are heartbreaking - something like 55,000 Afghans lose limbs yearly and the majority are children playing or walking to school. And no hospitals to help them excpet for volunteer ones.

The bit about the ex-Afghan military guy was tagic - whilst a western photographer can get flown to a hospital within minutes, he gets no help whatsover.

And then some have the hide to question why people would want to leave their at any cost in the hope of giving their children a better chance at life...

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

lakeland27 — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:39:58 GMT

vietnam and its neighbors still have the same problem as well as others.. what a wonderful legacy .

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

***super_nova*** — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:14:31 GMT

... just as every country that we went to "save" is now polluted with depleted uranium, which causes dreadful birth defect and sickness in the population, especial children. Modern wars leave countries full of mines and poison = unlivable.

Re: Looks like the PNG solution is working.

newstart2380 — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:00:12 GMT

@mtnlane wrote:
If you were 'just wondering' perhaps you should have read the link or, perish the thought, searched out the programme to see for yourself rather than ask a question like that.

I am sure Azureline can answer for herself but I found your question appallingly insensitive and in very poor taste.

The young lad Azureline was referring to lost his left leg and left arm 'walking to school' when he stepped on a land mine.

Expand your horizons and watch the programme.

No thanks, I see to much misery in real life to have to watch poor unfortunate children who have their limbs blown off because of stupid men starting stupid wars. I was not being insensitive and you don't know me, to suggest otherwise is very presumptuous of you