topic Re: Workchoices in Community Spirit

Workchoices

catsnknots — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 04:37:24 GMT

Did Labor have a mandate to get rid of Workchoices after they won the election from John Howard?

If so why?

Re: Workchoices

fourandsixpants — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 04:38:36 GMT

Don't get me started with this topic.....you might get more than you bargained for!

Re: Workchoices

catsnknots — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 04:45:55 GMT

why Paintsew?

do you think they had a mandate to get rid of Workchoices?

I erally don't mind if you get started..... I am open to all sides on this one....

Personally Workchoices made it easeir than ever for me to get a job..... I never had a cut in wages and when I had to take an employer to task over sacking me and telling me I was a single mother and didn't have time for work I still had options to get compensated.

Re: Workchoices

lakeland27 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 04:59:38 GMT

i assumed you were setting up a case for a 'mandate' there is no longer the case, mandate is a mere term now.

Re: Workchoices

catsnknots — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:09:48 GMT

I want to know if Labor had a community given right to remove Workchoices.... were the people right to expect Labor to remove it and does that mean that the Libs can never go back and alter these workplace agreements?

Re: Workchoices

lakeland27 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:18:01 GMT

what do you mean ? they won government , and this was what everyone (except you it seems) wanted. abbott said 'dead buried 'many times .. meaning he acepted that the public wont tolerate a return.

Re: Workchoices

catsnknots — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:24:38 GMT

So did the opposition (Coalition) do the right thing in 100% going with the flow of the argument of the people that voted?

And it would not have been everyone as not everyone voted for Labor... but Labor won fair and square so the Coalition didn't argue against it.

Was that the right thing to do or should they have argued that some people didn't vote for Labor so therefor they should not agree with the legislation.

Re: Workchoices

lakeland27 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:29:20 GMT

and i was off topic according to the mod and the BP, are you sure you aren't about to change the topic ?

Re: Workchoices

poddster — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:32:50 GMT

I wouldn't mind seeing a return of having the choice to negotiate my own wages and conditions,but I have always done that anyway. That means that unions don't have a strangle hold on employee or employer, that was the cause of the death knell.

The Labor Union symbiotic relationship is mutually dependent, it is a path to disaster and oblivion in this enlightened age of mass communication.

Yet they each cling to that relationship in a mortal embrace.

Roll on, the demise 🙂

Re: Workchoices

lakeland27 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:35:11 GMT

labor were able to change it because they had the numbers. in june/july next year PUP will vote with the LNP, so you'll have the numbers then .. when abbott is out again everything will be changed back anyway . the only partisan area left is in the area of illegitimate wars now.

Re: Workchoices

lakeland27 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:37:54 GMT

@poddster wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing a return of having the choice to negotiate my own wages and conditions,but I have always done that anyway. That means that unions don't have a strangle hold on employee or employer, that was the cause of the death knell.

The Labor Union symbiotic relationship is mutually dependent, it is a path to disaster and oblivion in this enlightened age of mass communication.

Yet they each cling to that relationship in a mortal embrace.
Roll on, the demise 🙂

lucky you. only rusties would want such a thing though, if he tries it he's going to have a very short tenure thats for sure

Re: Workchoices

poddster — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:50:46 GMT

The choice of employer/employee relationship is and always has been available to anyone who wanted to communicate directly with their employer to set their remuneration and conditions.

On one occasion when I was employed I was approached by the union rep an told that I had to join the union, when I refused, I and the employer were threatened with strike action if I did not join. I still refused and came to an agreement with the employer that I be made a member of the staff. The union reg was pretty peeved at that because he had been after a staff position for around 20 years but being a union rep he was never able to achieve that and there I was a staff member after a few weeks. 🙂

By the way LL that was not luck 🙂

Re: Workchoices

debra9275 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:56:24 GMT

clever you!

I still vote NO to work choices. I have a few friends who have to renegotiate their jobs every year & I know what a waste of time & stress it is for people.

Re: Workchoices

poddster — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 06:11:32 GMT

That is your choice Deb, there are a lot of others that dont think like you 🙂

Re: Workchoices

debra9275 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 06:20:00 GMT

Yes, my choices would be different to yours, and lots don't think like you either.Thank goodness for a democracy eh?

Re: Workchoices

grandmoon — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 06:22:47 GMT

When workchoices were first brought in my OH who's comprehension of writing English isn't good was not allowed to have anyone from the union with him to help him so I went with him.

There were 2 bosses, 2 members from the Master Builders Ass. and a Solictor in the room.

He was handed a 8 page contract and expected to sign it without allowing me time to read it thoroughly and he wasn't allow to take the contract away to read it.

This happened to a lot of the workers who english was their second language. Not all Bosses are good and not all are bad.

Re: Workchoices

cherry*135 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 06:28:39 GMT

I would always vote' 'No' for Work Choices also ( and Yes for the Labor party's NBN. Also for cloud storage)

Re: Workchoices

debra9275 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 06:28:54 GMT

I'm sure it would've been quite intimidating for people too Grandmoon

Re: Workchoices

i-need-a-martini — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 06:50:19 GMT

I am not 100% sure what you are asking catmad, but I think it is generally agreed on all sides of politics that Workchoices was a disaster for Industriial Relations.

Yes of course the unions opposed it but so did pretty much all left or right leaning industrial realtions groups and the public criticism was overwhelmingingly against it.

Add to that the way it was brought in - not as an election policy but snuck in the door later without any consultation with key groups. And to make it even worse then Howard had amendements made to constitutional acts in order to take industrial power away from the states which meant even the state governments (Liberal or Labor) didn't support it. In fact, didn't the states all get together to take the changes to the High Court?

And then he dug the whole further by cutting the Senate enquiry short...

Anyway, in the same way that Abboott went to the 2013 election riding the 'Stop the Boats' promise, the Rudd government went to the 2007 election riding the 'Dismantle Workchoices' promise. And he was voted in with a 6% swing and an extra 23 seats on that basis...

Re: Workchoices

catsnknots — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 06:54:54 GMT

@lakeland27 wrote:
labor were able to change it because they had the numbers. in june/july next year PUP will vote with the LNP, so you'll have the numbers then .. when abbott is out again everything will be changed back anyway . the only partisan area left is in the area of illegitimate wars now.

Please show me where any Coalition member voted against the changes that were put forward?

It was not just that they had the numbers it was that they respected the say of the majoriy of the people.....

and why are you still talking about a different topic???? I really only want to talk about workchoices.... If I choose to discuss the co2 tax I promise I will use another thread or start a new one..... ok?

This topic means a lot because up here we need to have changes so that the small businesses can thrive and grow and employ more people.