topic Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins in Community Spirit

Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

icyfroth — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 01:38:43 GMT

The Defence Department is standing firm behind its decision to issue rising sun cufflinks and lapel badges emblazoned on a gay pride flag.

A Queensland Army Reserve officer has lashed out at the idea, claiming it is inappropriate for the rising sun symbol to be used for a "political cause".

Major Bernard Gaynor is demanding the Minister for Defence halt production of the pins, saying Defence is "wasting taxpayer dollars on jewellery to promote homosexuality".

"The rising sun badge is a symbol of the Australian Army and is loved and respected by Australians of all walks of life," Major Gaynor said. "It is an insult to all current and former serving personnel for the rising sun to be linked with the political campaign for homosexual marriage."

Defence said its army pride lapel pin and cufflinks were dev-eloped to show the modern Australian Defence Force was an org-anisation that respects diversity.

The army allows personnel to wear endorsed lapel pins and ribbons on specific occasions.

"Workplace inclusion for all ADF members is a high priority for Defence as it undergoes cultural change," a Defence spokeswoman said.

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Surely a person's sexual orientation is their own business and doesn't need to promoted by the Defence Force of all people. God knows they have enough sexual harrasment and **bleep** problems without advertising people's sexual preferences.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

bluecat*dancing — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 01:50:26 GMT

For those who wish to marry their same-sex partner, it is a personal issue rather than a political one.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

cherples — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 01:52:20 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
The Defence Department is standing firm behind its decision to issue rising sun cufflinks and lapel badges emblazoned on a gay pride flag.
A Queensland Army Reserve officer has lashed out at the idea, claiming it is inappropriate for the rising sun symbol to be used for a "political cause".
Major Bernard Gaynor is demanding the Minister for Defence halt production of the pins, saying Defence is "wasting taxpayer dollars on jewellery to promote homosexuality".
"The rising sun badge is a symbol of the Australian Army and is loved and respected by Australians of all walks of life," Major Gaynor said. "It is an insult to all current and former serving personnel for the rising sun to be linked with the political campaign for homosexual marriage."
Defence said its army pride lapel pin and cufflinks were dev-eloped to show the modern Australian Defence Force was an org-anisation that respects diversity.
The army allows personnel to wear endorsed lapel pins and ribbons on specific occasions.
"Workplace inclusion for all ADF members is a high priority for Defence as it undergoes cultural change," a Defence spokeswoman said.

Click Here To View Entire Article

Surely a person's sexual orientation is their own business and doesn't need to promoted by the Defence Force of all people. God knows they have enough sexual harrasment and **bleep** problems without advertising people's sexual preferences.

Now we have some random army reservist thinking he has the right to demand the Minister of Defence act on his behalf. How dare someone try to encourage acceptance of homosexual people instead of taunting, teasing and abusing them.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

spotweldersfriend — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 01:59:15 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1j0Pjw5ye4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

jimmy*part4 — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 02:00:29 GMT

Ok...I'm biting my tongue, BUTT.....come on!!!

Major Gaynor and both threads....

Army defends gay pride pins Australian students slipping behind.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

spotweldersfriend — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 02:11:13 GMT

So there.If its good enough for tbe Brits...

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

pct001wine — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 02:12:03 GMT

Good work ADF. Rather than "promoting homosexuality" as Major Gaynor would have us believe (lol), at least this may do something to recognise diversity in the ADF, and heaven help us, reduce the levels of homophobia in the ADF.

MAJ Gaynor needs to butt out.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

icyfroth — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 04:12:55 GMT

all very well but I don't see why being gay should even warrant a mention in any application for the Defence Force. Surely that's a person's own business.

On an application form all it requires you to answer is, are you male or female?

Does it ask anyone how do you take your sex? I don't think so. It's nobody's business but your own.

So why this promotion of Gay Pride? Do we see demonstrations of Male Pride? Or Female Pride? Homosexuality is not a 3rd gender!

You are still either male or female so get over it, we get it already with the gay acceptance thing!

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

bluecat*dancing — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 04:36:01 GMT

Heterosexuals are not stigmatised for their sexuality unlike homosexuals. Gay men have been victims of hate crime simply because of their sexuality. Gays and Lesbians have been, still are, made to feel as if there is something incredibly wrong with themselves. They still get treated like they are second class citizens and do not , except for the ACT, have the right to marry. Therefore, I understand the reasons for gay pride and I am hopeful that one day society will grow up so there won't be a need for such a thing.

I don't see the problem in adding rainbow colours to a badge.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

icyfroth — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 05:15:08 GMT

@bluecat*dancing wrote:
Heterosexuals are not stigmatised for their sexuality unlike homosexuals. Gay men have been victims of hate crime simply because of their sexuality. Gays and Lesbians have been, still are, made to feel as if there is something incredibly wrong with themselves. They still get treated like they are second class citizens and do not , except for the ACT, have the right to marry. Therefore, I understand the reasons for gay pride and I am hopeful that one day society will grow up so there won't be a need for such a thing.

I don't see the problem in adding rainbow colours to a badge.

I don't see the ADF having any business promoting the bedroom activities of it's personnell.

The defence force is there to defend our country or help our allies in the defence of theirs in the case of our Aussie soldiers.

I feel adding gay pride colours to a badge trivialises the sacrifices Aussie soldiers made in the last 2 wars. Leave the badge as it is.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

cherples — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 05:29:34 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
@bluecat*dancing wrote:
Heterosexuals are not stigmatised for their sexuality unlike homosexuals. Gay men have been victims of hate crime simply because of their sexuality. Gays and Lesbians have been, still are, made to feel as if there is something incredibly wrong with themselves. They still get treated like they are second class citizens and do not , except for the ACT, have the right to marry. Therefore, I understand the reasons for gay pride and I am hopeful that one day society will grow up so there won't be a need for such a thing.

I don't see the problem in adding rainbow colours to a badge.
I don't see the ADF having any business promoting the bedroom activities of it's personnell.

The defence force is there to defend our country or help our allies in the defence of theirs in the case of our Aussie soldiers.

I feel adding gay pride colours to a badge trivialises the sacrifices Aussie soldiers made in the last 2 wars. Leave the badge as it is.

They are not promoting the bedroom antics of their personel. They are promoting nothing more than acceptance of everyone.

What badge do you suggest they leave as is?

They are not changing a badge. They have commissioned some badges and cufflinks that can be purchased to be worn on some occassions. What is the problem with that?

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

bluecat*dancing — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 05:38:53 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
@bluecat*dancing wrote:
Heterosexuals are not stigmatised for their sexuality unlike homosexuals. Gay men have been victims of hate crime simply because of their sexuality. Gays and Lesbians have been, still are, made to feel as if there is something incredibly wrong with themselves. They still get treated like they are second class citizens and do not , except for the ACT, have the right to marry. Therefore, I understand the reasons for gay pride and I am hopeful that one day society will grow up so there won't be a need for such a thing.

I don't see the problem in adding rainbow colours to a badge.
I don't see the ADF having any business promoting the bedroom activities of it's personnell.

The defence force is there to defend our country or help our allies in the defence of theirs in the case of our Aussie soldiers.

I feel adding gay pride colours to a badge trivialises the sacrifices Aussie soldiers made in the last 2 wars. Leave the badge as it is.

I don't see it as promoting bedroom activities but rather acceptance. I would be surprised if there were no gay personel during the two world wars - people who made the same sacrifices.. Although, I do understand that there are people who do see it as being inappropriate but I am not one of them. I see it as a positive step.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

icyfroth — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 05:43:30 GMT

@cherples wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@bluecat*dancing wrote:
Heterosexuals are not stigmatised for their sexuality unlike homosexuals. Gay men have been victims of hate crime simply because of their sexuality. Gays and Lesbians have been, still are, made to feel as if there is something incredibly wrong with themselves. They still get treated like they are second class citizens and do not , except for the ACT, have the right to marry. Therefore, I understand the reasons for gay pride and I am hopeful that one day society will grow up so there won't be a need for such a thing.

I don't see the problem in adding rainbow colours to a badge.
I don't see the ADF having any business promoting the bedroom activities of it's personnell.

The defence force is there to defend our country or help our allies in the defence of theirs in the case of our Aussie soldiers.

I feel adding gay pride colours to a badge trivialises the sacrifices Aussie soldiers made in the last 2 wars. Leave the badge as it is.
They are not promoting the bedroom antics of their personel. They are promoting nothing more than acceptance of everyone.
What badge do you suggest they leave as is?

They are not changing a badge. They have commissioned some badges and cufflinks that can be purchased to be worn on some occassions. What is the problem with that?

I don't see that it's the mandate of the ADF to promote anyone's sexual orientation. It should be a given that they accept all able-bodied and -minded recruits without even questioning their sexual orientation (as they have always done,really.)

To display the colours with the rainbow badge simply shows they really still make the distinction.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

cherry*135 — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 06:17:47 GMT

They are promoting nothing more than acceptance of everyone.

Exactly. The Armed Forces traditionally have/had an anti gay culture. There are plenty of servicemen with Major Gaynor's attitude.. Time that changed.

Chief of Army Lt-Gen. David Morrison has issued a stern warning that Defence members unwilling to deal with efforts to force cultural change should "get out" of the military.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

cherples — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 06:33:30 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
@cherples wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@bluecat*dancing wrote:
Heterosexuals are not stigmatised for their sexuality unlike homosexuals. Gay men have been victims of hate crime simply because of their sexuality. Gays and Lesbians have been, still are, made to feel as if there is something incredibly wrong with themselves. They still get treated like they are second class citizens and do not , except for the ACT, have the right to marry. Therefore, I understand the reasons for gay pride and I am hopeful that one day society will grow up so there won't be a need for such a thing.

I don't see the problem in adding rainbow colours to a badge.
I don't see the ADF having any business promoting the bedroom activities of it's personnell.

The defence force is there to defend our country or help our allies in the defence of theirs in the case of our Aussie soldiers.

I feel adding gay pride colours to a badge trivialises the sacrifices Aussie soldiers made in the last 2 wars. Leave the badge as it is.
They are not promoting the bedroom antics of their personel. They are promoting nothing more than acceptance of everyone.
What badge do you suggest they leave as is?

They are not changing a badge. They have commissioned some badges and cufflinks that can be purchased to be worn on some occassions. What is the problem with that?

I don't see that it's the mandate of the ADF to promote anyone's sexual orientation. It should be a given that they accept all able-bodied and -minded recruits without even questioning their sexual orientation (as they have always done,really.)
To display the colours with the rainbow badge simply shows they really still make the distinction.

Would you rather we went back to the old way of gay bashing for fun?

No, they really haven't always accepted everyone regardless of sexual orientation.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

icyfroth — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 07:03:20 GMT

@cherples wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@cherples wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@bluecat*dancing wrote:
Heterosexuals are not stigmatised for their sexuality unlike homosexuals. Gay men have been victims of hate crime simply because of their sexuality. Gays and Lesbians have been, still are, made to feel as if there is something incredibly wrong with themselves. They still get treated like they are second class citizens and do not , except for the ACT, have the right to marry. Therefore, I understand the reasons for gay pride and I am hopeful that one day society will grow up so there won't be a need for such a thing.

I don't see the problem in adding rainbow colours to a badge.
I don't see the ADF having any business promoting the bedroom activities of it's personnell.

The defence force is there to defend our country or help our allies in the defence of theirs in the case of our Aussie soldiers.

I feel adding gay pride colours to a badge trivialises the sacrifices Aussie soldiers made in the last 2 wars. Leave the badge as it is.
They are not promoting the bedroom antics of their personel. They are promoting nothing more than acceptance of everyone.
What badge do you suggest they leave as is?

They are not changing a badge. They have commissioned some badges and cufflinks that can be purchased to be worn on some occassions. What is the problem with that?

I don't see that it's the mandate of the ADF to promote anyone's sexual orientation. It should be a given that they accept all able-bodied and -minded recruits without even questioning their sexual orientation (as they have always done,really.)
To display the colours with the rainbow badge simply shows they really still make the distinction.

Would you rather we went back to the old way of gay bashing for fun?

I fail to see where I've shown any inclination toward that in any of my posts.

No, they really haven't always accepted everyone regardless of sexual orientation.

I disagree. Have the armed forces have ever questioned a recruit as to his/her sexual orientation?

Now I really have to make like a banana and split.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 07:07:02 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
@cherples wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@bluecat*dancing wrote:
Heterosexuals are not stigmatised for their sexuality unlike homosexuals. Gay men have been victims of hate crime simply because of their sexuality. Gays and Lesbians have been, still are, made to feel as if there is something incredibly wrong with themselves. They still get treated like they are second class citizens and do not , except for the ACT, have the right to marry. Therefore, I understand the reasons for gay pride and I am hopeful that one day society will grow up so there won't be a need for such a thing.

I don't see the problem in adding rainbow colours to a badge.
I don't see the ADF having any business promoting the bedroom activities of it's personnell.

The defence force is there to defend our country or help our allies in the defence of theirs in the case of our Aussie soldiers.

I feel adding gay pride colours to a badge trivialises the sacrifices Aussie soldiers made in the last 2 wars. Leave the badge as it is.
They are not promoting the bedroom antics of their personel. They are promoting nothing more than acceptance of everyone.
What badge do you suggest they leave as is?

They are not changing a badge. They have commissioned some badges and cufflinks that can be purchased to be worn on some occassions. What is the problem with that?

I don't see that it's the mandate of the ADF to promote anyone's sexual orientation. It should be a given that they accept all able-bodied and -minded recruits without even questioning their sexual orientation (as they have always done,really.)
To display the colours with the rainbow badge simply shows they really still make the distinction.

This badge is not something that has to be worn as a regular part of any soldier's uniform. It is a discreet and totally optional piece of jewellery that is permitted to be worn on specific occasions.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

cherry*135 — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 07:18:17 GMT

1. It should be a given that they accept all able-bodied and -minded recruits without even questioning their sexual orientation (as they have always done,really.)

No, the armed forces haven't always done that. Australia has allowed homosexuals to serve openly since 1992.

2. Have the armed forces have ever questioned a recruit as to his/her sexual orientation?

It is not about the legalities of serving in the armed forces as a gay person..that is quite clear. Just because gay persons can legally serve in the armed forces doesn't mean they aren't harrassed by other members of the armed forces (which is the culture in the Armed Forces) or that they are accepted by other servicemen.. this it what this is all about.

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

cherry*135 — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 07:23:31 GMT

20 years ago, gays and lesbians in the Australian Defence Force served under constant threat of being discharged if their sexual orientation was discovered

Re: Army Defends Gay Pride Pins

bright.ton42 — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 08:16:22 GMT

It's a good move forward and I'm all for it. Gay pride is not just about sexual orientatiion but a way of life and any form of acceptance and recognition is very welcome.