topic Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad in Community Spirit

Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

icyfroth — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:20:38 GMT

Those individuals currently gloating over Tony Abbott’s discomfort over the fallout from the Indonesian phone-tapping revelations may come to regret using national security as a political plaything to undermine a new conservative prime minister.

The phone-tapping controversy has been seized upon by Abbott’s political enemies, in part as payback, but mainly and in a totally irresponsible way, because it has the potential to derail a central Abbott election pledge — that of stopping the flow of illegal boat people.

If Abbott fails in this commitment, his re-election chances will be seriously diminished.

Abbott’s opponents are savouring the embarrassment, the discomfort and the unfolding repercussions from a security decision that was ironically made under Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.

The consequences of the Edward Snowden betrayal and subsequent airing of the leaked material on the ABC and the UK’s Guardian online newspaper go beyond political discomfort.

They will potentially hit Australia’s live meat exports, will do irreparable harm to Australia’s relationship with Indonesia, and may in the long-term assist the activities of would-be terrorists.

Prime Minister Abbott has so far correctly chosen not to discuss whether the order to tap the phones of high-level people in Indonesia after the 2009 bombings of the J.W. Marriott and the Ritz-Carlton hotels was warranted or was an instance of overreach by the then Rudd Labor government.

It would have been easy but enormously dangerous for Abbott to politicise the issue.

Yet his opponents have done just that, with contradictory suggestions of assistance and co-operation, including enlisting Mr Rudd to assist, all laden with the message that Labor would have handled the whole affair so much better.

In truth there is probably nothing Mr Abbott could have done to stop the fall-out from the episode, including offering a public apology to President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, or making a promise that it would never happen again.

The Indonesian ruling elite are justifiably angry about the revelations of phone-tapping private personal phone calls of the President, but are also adept at using such an incident for their own internal political issues — a bit of anti-Australian indignation does no harm to a politician’s standing in Jakarta.

Nevertheless, the security phone-tapping spat between Australia and Indonesia has one potential unintended upside for Tony Abbott and his political opponents — it is helping to fast-track his prime ministerial skill set.

The episode will also reveal whether Mr Abbott has the capacity to grow into a job in which he has never had any actual previous experience.

Abbott’s skills as an “oppositionist” and his single-minded determination and discipline are now widely acknowledged, even by his opponents in the Labor Party; but they are an entirely different set of political skills from that of being prime minister.

No amount of experience as a minister or opposition leader can prepare someone for the loneliness of responsibilities and decision-making as a leader of a nation.

The phone-tapping fallout shows that things do not go to a planned script; there are always unexpected crises and events that derail political strategies.

Mistakes and unintended consequences are always sheeted home to the person at the top.

In the early period of the Hawke Labor government, Bob Hawke, who was a good prime minister, was revealed to have hidden from the Australian public a decision to allow the United States to test MX missiles in the Tasman Sea, off the coast of Tasmania.

As with the current fracas with Indonesia, the original decision to permit the missile tests had been made by the previous Fraser Coalition government, but had been honoured in secret by Prime Minister Hawke and his Cabinet.

And again, when the MX missile story broke, the Left (then largely focused on all things nuclear) savaged the Hawke government.

The anti-nuclear movement was then huge — protests in the streets against the American nuclear tests pulled in more than 250,000 people, according to reports at the time.

And, at the 1984 election, the movement had enough momentum to secure Senate seats before the hardline Trotskyite Socialist Left took over and the entire anti-nuclear movement began to implode.

In the end, Hawke folded and successfully convinced the United States (which was already worried by New Zealand’s ban on nuclear ships) to abandon the tests.

Today, the same radical left mentality of the early 1980s, that despises the West and its values, has turned mainstream and been institutionalised inside organisations such as the ABC, the universities, the Greens and sections of the ALP.

It is most likely that Abbott will recover from the first real test of his leadership, and possibly emerge stronger for the crash course he is currently undergoing in being a prime minister.

But when he does, he will have a much clearer idea about where Australia’s enemies lie.

From Here

I love a clear-thinking Journo...

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

i-need-a-martini — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:36:15 GMT

A clear thinking journo who goes by the name of "by our national correspondent"? I don't think so.

It's interesting that there is such a plethora of faceless opinion pieces that criticise Labor and support Liberal.

Is it possibly because the journalist isn't reporting the facts? Because as far as I can tell (and it has been noted even by Liberal supporters on this forum), Abbotts political opponents have been relatively silent on the spying matter. And generally have been quite civil in their criticism of all things Abbott.

Whilst his 'opponents' may well indeed be "savouring" the "the embarrassment, the discomfort and the unfolding repercussions" that Abbott is facing, they have been far from vocal in their criticism.

If the nameless journo wants to point the finger at anyone then perhaps he should criticise the Australian public who have been much more vocal about their distaste over the whole affair than Abbotts 'opponents'.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

topsidesoul — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:40:00 GMT

A clear thinking journo who does not put their name on their work?

BAHAHAHAHA

The makers of your publication are a 'think tank'....very clear thinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Civic_Council

National civic council.....

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

spotweldersfriend — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:55:47 GMT

An offshoot of B.A.Santamaria's group.Consevative to say the least.Personally,I don't consider Snowden a traitor.I hope we have more like him in the future to keep the b.....,. honest.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

izabsmiling — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:01:24 GMT

It actually may help him...there is an excuse for his impossible 'stop the boats' promise not to work.

Even before this happened...the plan looked at risk.When stand offs about accepting returned asylum seekers started happening didn't it ?

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

red_wolfey — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:00:21 GMT

@spotweldersfriend wrote:
An offshoot of B.A.Santamaria's group.Consevative to say the least.Personally,I don't consider Snowden a traitor.I hope we have more like him in the future to keep the b.....,. honest.

You forget, we now punish whistleblowers in this country.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

icyfroth — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:06:57 GMT

@i-need-a-martini wrote:
A clear thinking journo who goes by the name of "by our national correspondent"? I don't think so.

It's interesting that there is such a plethora of faceless opinion pieces that criticise Labor and support Liberal.

Is it possibly because the journalist isn't reporting the facts? Because as far as I can tell (and it has been noted even by Liberal supporters on this forum), Abbotts political opponents have been relatively silent on the spying matter. And generally have been quite civil in their criticism of all things Abbott.

Whilst his 'opponents' may well indeed be "savouring" the "the embarrassment, the discomfort and the unfolding repercussions" that Abbott is facing, they have been far from vocal in their criticism.

If the nameless journo wants to point the finger at anyone then perhaps he should criticise the Australian public who have been much more vocal about their distaste over the whole affair than Abbotts 'opponents'.

@topsidesoul wrote:
A clear thinking journo who does not put their name on their work?

BAHAHAHAHA

The makers of your publication are a 'think tank'....very clear thinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Civic_Council

National civic council.....

Who cares what the journos name is?

The article is balanced view looking at both sides of the argument without the venom and spite I've seen in other articles.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

para-sights — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:39:19 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
@i-need-a-martini wrote:
A clear thinking journo who goes by the name of "by our national correspondent"? I don't think so.

It's interesting that there is such a plethora of faceless opinion pieces that criticise Labor and support Liberal.

Is it possibly because the journalist isn't reporting the facts? Because as far as I can tell (and it has been noted even by Liberal supporters on this forum), Abbotts political opponents have been relatively silent on the spying matter. And generally have been quite civil in their criticism of all things Abbott.

Whilst his 'opponents' may well indeed be "savouring" the "the embarrassment, the discomfort and the unfolding repercussions" that Abbott is facing, they have been far from vocal in their criticism.

If the nameless journo wants to point the finger at anyone then perhaps he should criticise the Australian public who have been much more vocal about their distaste over the whole affair than Abbotts 'opponents'.

@topsidesoul wrote:
A clear thinking journo who does not put their name on their work?

BAHAHAHAHA

The makers of your publication are a 'think tank'....very clear thinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Civic_Council

National civic council.....
Who cares what the journos name is?
The article is balanced view looking at both sides of the argument without the venom and spite I've seen in other articles.

"Today, the same radical left mentality of the early 1980s, that despises the West and its values, has turned mainstream and been institutionalised inside organisations such as the ABC, the universities, the Greens and sections of the ALP."

I think this line is pretty spiteful and unbalanced in it's obvious jab at anything the author deems more left than conservative.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

izabsmiling — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:53:11 GMT

It's that attitude expressed pre-election by our PM,his media (including social media) promoters which is responsible for this.

The attitude that Asian races,other religions are inferior to Australians and our new PM's Christian faith and the arrogance that he expected other Leaders will do what they are told to help our Country...................one of the wealthiest in the world ...

where discrimination is unlawful and

seeking Asylum is lawful

I think other leaders may enjoy watching Mr Abbott squirm

I do not ....he is the leader of my Country

every time my PM speaks I am embarrassed and nervous about what he will say

It was not us (through our media) our PM needed to speak to

My Prime Ministers words have made and do make things worse imo

Tony Abbott:Again, Madam Speaker, I want to express here in this Chamber my deep and sincere regret about the embarrassment to the President and to Indonesia that’s been caused by recent media reporting.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

izabsmiling — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 23:10:37 GMT

and for me it goes without saying for others it seems not to that an Australian can be of Asian (or any other) origin and can be of any faith.So such attitudes also set Australian against Australian...

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

izabsmiling — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 23:36:28 GMT

To sum it up..imo Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad were made in the process of one man gaining power of our Country.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

izabsmiling — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 02:06:33 GMT

@para-sights wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@i-need-a-martini wrote:
A clear thinking journo who goes by the name of "by our national correspondent"? I don't think so.

It's interesting that there is such a plethora of faceless opinion pieces that criticise Labor and support Liberal.

Is it possibly because the journalist isn't reporting the facts? Because as far as I can tell (and it has been noted even by Liberal supporters on this forum), Abbotts political opponents have been relatively silent on the spying matter. And generally have been quite civil in their criticism of all things Abbott.

Whilst his 'opponents' may well indeed be "savouring" the "the embarrassment, the discomfort and the unfolding repercussions" that Abbott is facing, they have been far from vocal in their criticism.

If the nameless journo wants to point the finger at anyone then perhaps he should criticise the Australian public who have been much more vocal about their distaste over the whole affair than Abbotts 'opponents'.

@topsidesoul wrote:
A clear thinking journo who does not put their name on their work?

BAHAHAHAHA

The makers of your publication are a 'think tank'....very clear thinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Civic_Council

National civic council.....
Who cares what the journos name is?
The article is balanced view looking at both sides of the argument without the venom and spite I've seen in other articles.

"Today, the same radical left mentality of the early 1980s, that despises the West and its values, has turned mainstream and been institutionalised inside organisations such as the ABC, the universities, the Greens and sections of the ALP."

I think this line is pretty spiteful and unbalanced in it's obvious jab at anything the author deems more left than conservative.

on so many levels...I'm still shaking me head about it

1980
Ernie Bridge (ALP, MLA Kimberley) becomes the first Aboriginal member of the Western Australian Parliament.

WA Government and CSR support Amax Mining Corporation who enter Noonkanbah community and drill into Ngarranggari sacred site.

1983
Aboriginal Land Inquiry, headed by Paul Seaman, Q.C. is established to make recommendations to the Government 'for a scheme of legislation for land related measures for the benefit of Aboriginal people' in Western Australia. Report presented in 1984.

1984
The AAPA becomes independent of the Commonwealth Department of Aboriginal Affairs.

Enrolment and voting in Commonwealth elections made compulsory for Indigenous people.

1985
The National Aboriginal Conference is disbanded.

1986
A separate Aboriginal Affairs portfolio is created in Western Australia and the Hon Ernie Bridge, MLA, appointed to Cabinet as Minister for Aboriginal Affairs.

1987
The Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody is established by the Commonwealth, State and Territory Governments to investigate the deaths of ninety-nine Aboriginal persons in police and prison custody.

The State Ministers for Aboriginal Affairs, Police and Corrective services establish an Interim Inquiry into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody in Western Australia.

Commonwealth Government launches the Aboriginal Employment Development Policy to assist Aboriginal people achieve equity with other Australians in terms of employment and economic status.

The Ministers for Aboriginal Affairs and Health co-chair the first national meeting of a joint Ministerial Forum on Aboriginal Health.

1988
Thousands of Indigenous people and supporters march through the streets of Sydney to celebrate survival, on the Bicentennial of British invasion of Australia.

1989
Royal Commission appoints Patrick Dodson as Commissioner for Western Australia to consider 'underlying issues' of Aboriginal deaths in custody.

The National Aboriginal Health Strategy is presented to the Joint Ministerial Forum.

The third national health survey (conducted by the ABS) provides, for the first time, for the identification of Indigenous people.

http://museum.wa.gov.au/exhibitions/online/referendum/timeline/1980s.html

it disregards this message

I Am Australian ~ Song "I AM AUSTRALIAN"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD3SkTyXzcE

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

lakeland27 — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 02:50:05 GMT

Labor split and the National Civic Council

Events leading to "The Split" included a well publicised incident in the Victorian parliament. In October 1954, the Sydney Sun-Herald reported on a letter sent by the Victorian Minister for Lands, Robert W. Holt, to the federal secretary of the Australian Labor Party Mr. J. Schmella, which the paper described as 'probably as explosive, politically, as any document in Australia'.[3] Holt stated "My charge is that the Victorian branch is controlled and directed in the main by one group or section through Mr. B. Santamaria ... My criticism is not personal. It is leveled against those ideas which are contrary to what I believe Labor policy to be. Moreover, I have been requested by my numerous and trusted friends, who happen to be Catholic, to fight against the influence of Mr. Santamaria and those he represents, when he seeks to implement his ideas through an abuse of a political movement, designed to serve a truly political purpose."[3]

Holt spoke of events the previous year and describes attending a meeting of Santamaria's National Catholic Rural Movement Convention, following which he was, as Minister of Lands, approached by Santamaria and Frank Scully, where he was asked to use his position to make Crown land available to "Italians with foreign capital". When he refused, "Santamaria stated that I might not be in the next parliament", and Scully agreed. Holt considered this 'a direct threat' which was confirmed when another M.L.A. confided that there was 'pressure' to oppose him for party selection for his seat. He added that "subsequent events which happened during the selection ballot' had convinced him that the ALP's 'Victorian branch is not free to implement Labor policy and connives with this method."[3] He concluded by stating his belief in:

'a party machine which permits the true expression of opinion of its members, regardless of who or what they may be. The only requirement is loyalty to Labor ideals and principles. This is not possible in the present circumstances...'[3]

Holt introduced the Land Bill without Santamaria's desired advantage and it was at first amended by another ALP member, then defeated, amended again and passed - with what Santamaria wanted - after two Liberal party members "switched sides".[3] In December 1954, Santamaria launched a suit again Holt for libel, citing the letter published in-full by the Sun-Herald.[4] The libel action was withdrawn, without explanation, in April 1955.[5]

In 1954 Evatt publicly blamed "the Groupers" for Labor's defeat in that year's federal election, and after a tumultuous National Conference in Hobart in 1955, Santamaria's parliamentary followers were expelled from the Labor Party. The resulting split (now usually called "The Split", although there have been several other "splits" in Labor history) brought down the Labor government of John Cain senior in Victoria. In Victoria, Dr Mannix strongly supported Santamaria, but in New South Wales, Norman Cardinal Gilroy, the first Australian-born Roman Catholic prelate, opposed him, favouring the traditional alliance between the Church and Labor. Gilroy's influence in Rome helped to end official Church support for the Groupers. In January 1955, Santamaria used Dr Mannix as his witness to the statement, "There is no Catholic organisation seeking to dominate the Labor Party or any other political party ... So that there will be no equivocation, Catholics are not associated with any other secular body seeking to dominate the Labor Party or any other political party."[6]

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

lakeland27 — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 02:51:12 GMT

Santamaria made this statement when he denied charges from the general secretary of the Australian Workers' Union (Mr T Dougherty) that the "No. 2 man in the Victorian ALP" (Frank McManus), the "No. 2 man in the NSW Labor Party" (J. Kane) and the "secretary of the Australian Rules Football Association of Queensland" (Mr Polgrain) were Santamaria's "top lieutenants in The Movement". For his part, McManus suggested that Dougherty "appeared to have contracted an ailment from one of his political colleagues ... the chief symptom of this ailment was that the sufferer believed he was always detecting conspiracy theories".[6]

Santamaria founded a new organisation no longer an organ of Catholic Action, the National Civic Council (NCC), and edited its newspaper, News Weekly, for many years. His followers, known as Groupers, continued to control a number of important unions. Those expelled from the Labor Party formed a new party, the Democratic Labor Party (DLP), dedicated to opposing both Communism and the Labor Party, which they said was controlled by Communist sympathisers. Santamaria never joined the DLP but was one of its guiding influences.[citation needed]

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

lakeland27 — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 02:54:53 GMT

PM tony abbott is the product of the 'national civic council' and its possible he wrote the article himself

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/how-tony-abbott-laboured-over-choice-of-party/story-fn59niix-1226494801586#

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

lakeland27 — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 02:58:45 GMT

Abbott confessed he was sick of the NCC criticising unwelcome social and political trends from the sidelines. He wanted to change society by working from within. This meant sharing the fears and concerns of the "common herd". It was crucial to "make the compromises that life requires, be wrong, get blood on one's hands - but at least be in it".

For "vigorous, self-starting people" such as himself, the real issue was to secure a direct parliamentary presence. NCC people needed to "coalesce around leading individuals in the major parties".

But which of the major parties was the more suitable?

Labor's previous 30 years of hostility to Santamaria weighed against it but Abbott wrote, "our roots and the origins of our political culture are there". But if the ALP was not "dominated" by Santamaria-style ideas, it would succumb to "the grip of the Left or of soulless pragmatists". This was intolerable.

However, the Liberal Party was just as problematic. It was "without soul, direction or inspiring leadership", while its members were divided between "surviving trendies and the more or less simple-minded advocates of the free market".

The Liberal Party's mixture of "hand-wringing indecision or inappropriate economic Ramboism and perhaps their lack of political professionalism" struck Abbott as a fatal combination.

The choice on offer was bleak. "To join either existing party involves holding one's nose," he wrote.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

izabsmiling — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 04:27:02 GMT

had to be done I think so he could continue,in his own words,to work against the "land rights for gay whales" type of activist who’d dominated student political bodies since the Vietnam War era.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

windrake — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 07:47:23 GMT

5 denigrating replies, I think you protest too much. Enemies of the govt and Australia are only too williing to pooh pooh any criticism they percieve to pertain to themselves.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

windrake — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 07:52:46 GMT

û
@icyfroth wrote:
Those individuals currently gloating over Tony Abbott’s discomfort over the fallout from the Indonesian phone-tapping revelations may come to regret using national security as a political plaything to undermine a new conservative prime minister.

The phone-tapping controversy has been seized upon by Abbott’s political enemies, in part as payback, but mainly and in a totally irresponsible way, because it has the potential to derail a central Abbott election pledge — that of stopping the flow of illegal boat people.

If Abbott fails in this commitment, his re-election chances will be seriously diminished.

Abbott’s opponents are savouring the embarrassment, the discomfort and the unfolding repercussions from a security decision that was ironically made under Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.

The consequences of the Edward Snowden betrayal and subsequent airing of the leaked material on the ABC and the UK’s Guardian online newspaper go beyond political discomfort.
They will potentially hit Australia’s live meat exports, will do irreparable harm to Australia’s relationship with Indonesia, and may in the long-term assist the activities of would-be terrorists.

Prime Minister Abbott has so far correctly chosen not to discuss whether the order to tap the phones of high-level people in Indonesia after the 2009 bombings of the J.W. Marriott and the Ritz-Carlton hotels was warranted or was an instance of overreach by the then Rudd Labor government.

It would have been easy but enormously dangerous for Abbott to politicise the issue.

Yet his opponents have done just that, with contradictory suggestions of assistance and co-operation, including enlisting Mr Rudd to assist, all laden with the message that Labor would have handled the whole affair so much better.

In truth there is probably nothing Mr Abbott could have done to stop the fall-out from the episode, including offering a public apology to President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, or making a promise that it would never happen again.

The Indonesian ruling elite are justifiably angry about the revelations of phone-tapping private personal phone calls of the President, but are also adept at using such an incident for their own internal political issues — a bit of anti-Australian indignation does no harm to a politician’s standing in Jakarta.

Nevertheless, the security phone-tapping spat between Australia and Indonesia has one potential unintended upside for Tony Abbott and his political opponents — it is helping to fast-track his prime ministerial skill set.
The episode will also reveal whether Mr Abbott has the capacity to grow into a job in which he has never had any actual previous experience.

Abbott’s skills as an “oppositionist” and his single-minded determination and discipline are now widely acknowledged, even by his opponents in the Labor Party; but they are an entirely different set of political skills from that of being prime minister.
No amount of experience as a minister or opposition leader can prepare someone for the loneliness of responsibilities and decision-making as a leader of a nation.

The phone-tapping fallout shows that things do not go to a planned script; there are always unexpected crises and events that derail political strategies.

Mistakes and unintended consequences are always sheeted home to the person at the top.

In the early period of the Hawke Labor government, Bob Hawke, who was a good prime minister, was revealed to have hidden from the Australian public a decision to allow the United States to test MX missiles in the Tasman Sea, off the coast of Tasmania.
As with the current fracas with Indonesia, the original decision to permit the missile tests had been made by the previous Fraser Coalition government, but had been honoured in secret by Prime Minister Hawke and his Cabinet.
And again, when the MX missile story broke, the Left (then largely focused on all things nuclear) savaged the Hawke government.
The anti-nuclear movement was then huge — protests in the streets against the American nuclear tests pulled in more than 250,000 people, according to reports at the time.
And, at the 1984 election, the movement had enough momentum to secure Senate seats before the hardline Trotskyite Socialist Left took over and the entire anti-nuclear movement began to implode.

In the end, Hawke folded and successfully convinced the United States (which was already worried by New Zealand’s ban on nuclear ships) to abandon the tests.

Today, the same radical left mentality of the early 1980s, that despises the West and its values, has turned mainstream and been institutionalised inside organisations such as the ABC, the universities, the Greens and sections of the ALP.

It is most likely that Abbott will recover from the first real test of his leadership, and possibly emerge stronger for the crash course he is currently undergoing in being a prime minister.

But when he does, he will have a much clearer idea about where Australia’s enemies lie.

From Here

I love a clear-thinking Journo...

Thanks for posting. a very concise and balanced piece but the luvvies won't like it.

Re: Australia's Enemies At Home And Abroad

izabsmiling — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:20:39 GMT

@windrake wrote:
5 denigrating replies, I think you protest too much. Enemies of the govt and Australia are only too williing to pooh pooh any criticism they percieve to pertain to themselves.

Wind rake: who you calling an enemy to the Gov't and Australia ?