topic Re: Well That's Not Fair Either! in Community Spirit

Well That's Not Fair Either!

icyfroth — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 01:34:14 GMT

A Muslim community leader in Australia has come out against the country's ban on Australians fighting in Syria or Iraq, while it allows them to join the Israel Defense Forces. President of the Lebanese Muslim Association Samier Dandan said it was "not fair" that Australians who fight in Syria or Iraq can face prosecution on their return home. Those who fight in the IDF should face prosecution, too, he said, according to Australian media reports. http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.607569#! I didn't even realise that was happening until I read it in the leftie newspaper the other day.

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

azureline** — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 01:58:25 GMT

and I agree, they both should face charges.

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 02:05:14 GMT

Australians can engage in armed service with other government forces without needing to worry about being charged. So Australians could fight with the Israeli Defence Force or in the Italian armed forces, for example, without needing to worry about legal action.

If an Australian citizen enters a foreign country intending to engage in hostile activity on behalf of armed forces that are not part of the foreign government, they could be charged. They can also be charged for intentionally supporting these hostile activities. The type of support can include preparations by training or drilling, accumulating arms or giving money for goods that could be used to support incursions. It can also include giving money to people or associations that may be intending to engage in hostilities.

Crimes (Incursions and Recruitment) Act

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 09:45:13 GMT

So presumably fighting for Hamas would be OK, since Hamas is the elected Government of Gaza.

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

k0llectable5 — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:34:50 GMT

I too cant believe that is happening Icy.

What Australian in the right mind would want to go and fight in the IDF? Do they need extra help killing the unarmend population in Gaza of which 43% are children under the age of 17. Thats just shameful IMO.

Post edited for grammer correction.

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

the_great_she_elephant — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 02:39:22 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
Australians can engage in armed service with other government forces without needing to worry about being charged. So Australians could fight with the Israeli Defence Force or in the Italian armed forces, for example, without needing to worry about legal action.

So presumably fighting for Hamas would be OK, since Hamas is the elected Government of Gaza.

I guess they are allowed to fight in Syria, too - as long as they are fighting for Assad.

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 02:53:09 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
Australians can engage in armed service with other government forces without needing to worry about being charged. So Australians could fight with the Israeli Defence Force or in the Italian armed forces, for example, without needing to worry about legal action.

So presumably fighting for Hamas would be OK, since Hamas is the elected Government of Gaza.

you will find that a military wing of hamas is listed

as a terrorist organisation (considering its objectives/activities)

so no i cant see how that would be be ok http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/default.aspx

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

the_great_she_elephant — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 03:03:19 GMT

@*julia*2010 wrote:
@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
Australians can engage in armed service with other government forces without needing to worry about being charged. So Australians could fight with the Israeli Defence Force or in the Italian armed forces, for example, without needing to worry about legal action.

So presumably fighting for Hamas would be OK, since Hamas is the elected Government of Gaza.
you will find that a military wing of hamas is listed
as a terrorist organisation (considering its objectives/activities)
so no i cant see how that would be be ok http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/default.aspx

Australians can engage in armed service with other government forces without needing to worry about being charged.

Hamas is the elected Government of Gaza. (all Governments re equal, but some are more equal than others?)

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

azureline** — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 03:06:29 GMT

@secondhand-wonderland wrote:
I too cant believe that is happening Icy.

What Australian in the right mind would want to go and fight in the IDF? Do they need extra help killing the unarmend population in Gaza of which 43% are children under the age of 17. Thats just shameful IMO.

Post edited for grammer correction.

One who has family in that country? neither side appears to be innocent in this.

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:03:11 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
@*julia*2010 wrote:
@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
Australians can engage in armed service with other government forces without needing to worry about being charged. So Australians could fight with the Israeli Defence Force or in the Italian armed forces, for example, without needing to worry about legal action.

So presumably fighting for Hamas would be OK, since Hamas is the elected Government of Gaza.
you will find that a military wing of hamas is listed
as a terrorist organisation (considering its objectives/activities)
so no i cant see how that would be be ok http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/default.aspx

Australians can engage in armed service with other government forces without needing to worry about being charged.

Hamas is the elected Government of Gaza. (all Governments re equal, but some are more equal than others?)

as said earlier the military wing (izz ad din al qassam brigades)

is listed as a terrorist organisation in australia (and the uk, european union, usa)

it is more complex in that:

Despite being Hamas’s military wing and subordinate to Hamas’s ideological objectives, the Brigades are structured as a distinct and discrete organisation which can survive the dissolution of Hamas’s political structures. Accordingly, the Brigades operate with a significant degree of independence in their decision making.

more info here: http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/HamassIzzal-Dinal-QassamBrigades.aspx

and the process of listing a terrorist organisation in aus http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/ProtocolForListingTerroristOrganisations.aspx also crimes (foreign incurssions and recruitemen) act 1978 http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2005C00715

hope this helps

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

the_great_she_elephant — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 05:32:35 GMT

So, how come the Government of Israel has an ARMY, while the Government of Gaza only has a MILITARY WING?

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

icyfroth — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 07:08:37 GMT

ah well there you go, she-el. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

lightningdance — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:01:02 GMT

Hamas is a terroist organization.

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

k0llectable5 — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 11:26:44 GMT

According to the ANS link that was provided

Division 102 of the Criminal Code provides that for an organisation to be listed as a terrorist organisation, the Attorney-General must be satisfied on reasonable grounds that the organisation:

is directly or indirectly engaged in, preparing, planning, or assisting in or fostering the doing of a terrorist act (whether or not a terrorist act has occurred or will occur); or
advocates the doing of a terrorist act (whether or not a terrorist act has occurred or will occur).

With that logic every military organisation in the world should be classed as a terrorist organisation...

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

the_great_she_elephant — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 11:33:49 GMT

@lightningdance wrote:
Hamas is a terroist organization.

The Australian Government considers Hamas to be a terrorist organization .

I imagine the Gaza Government considers the Israeli Army to be a terrorist organization.

As Icy said: One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Re: Well That's Not Fair Either!

icyfroth — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 01:55:55 GMT

"Hamas is a terrorist organization. "- yes in "Australia (and the UK, EU, USA". Of course they would call them terrorists, seeing they're backing Israel. - - Other countries might see them as defending their freedom and their country. - Romans, when they invaded England and Ireland, might have seen the Celts and Anglos as terrorists when they defended themselves against colonisation. - - And with all due respect, I don't think it's right Mr Abbott is calling Palestine "disputed territory" rather than "occupied territory", which in fact it is, and which Israel is settling as it's own, with impunity.