topic Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion. in Community Spirit

Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

the_great_she_elephant — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 02:37:12 GMT

Something to exercise your Monday brains

What is empathy?

How does it differ from sympathy?

Do animals feel emapthy or is it a purely human trait.?

Is it something intrinsic to human nature, or a learned emotion?

Is it something we all have or a luxury only affordable by those for whom life is not a continual struggle for survival?

Can you empathise with someone and still treat them like bleep?

I have my own thoughts on these questions, but I thought I'd throw it open to everyone else first and see what your ideas are. Feel free to add other questions on the subject if you think I've missed any.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

j*oono — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 03:19:21 GMT

Strange that you should ask She_el because it is well known that elephants do feel empathy.

Here is one article from National Geographic.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/2014/02/140221-elephants-poaching-empathy-grief-extinction-science/

No, I don't think you can empathise with someone and treat them badly unless you are a jerk.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

*lady*godiva* — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 03:24:57 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
Something to exercise your Monday brains
.
What is empathy?
How does it differ from sympathy?
Do animals feel emapthy or is it a purely human trait.?
Is it something intrinsic to human nature, or a learned emotion?
Is it something we all have or a luxury only affordable by those for whom life is not a continual struggle for survival?
Can you empathise with someone and still treat them like bleep?

I have my own thoughts on these questions, but I thought I'd throw it open to everyone else first and see what your ideas are. Feel free to add other questions on the subject if you think I've missed any.

Empathy: Understanding other people's situation because you can relate to it. "walk a mile in my shoes" "I used to cry because I had no shoes, then I saw a boy who had no feet"

Sympathy: Acknowledgement of a situation like a death and providing emotional support.

Animals: Not capable of empathy

Intrinsic: It's not intrinsic, but depends on your personality. Some are incapable of thinking of other people and believe that their situation surpasses anything that another could feel/experience. "self centered people"

Empathy is non discriminatory - rich and poor alike, sick or healthy, some are able to empathise with the plight of others - rich: Bill Gates vs Gina Rheinheart, Christopher Reeve Lady Di - Poor: Mother Theresa, , Ghandi, Nelson Mandella - Some people who struggle are so consumed with just getting through the day that they don't have the capacity to have concern for others. Others do.

Yes, you can empathise with someone and still treat them badly. A judge may feel empathy for a murderer and understand why they did what they did, but still send them to prison anyway because that is what they have to do. We saw this many times in WW2, where it broke people's hearts to do what they did, but for purposes of self preservation they did it anyway. I think this goes back to even the Bible where someone (Judas?) denounced Jesus, even though he loved him.(I think) He felt bad and ashamed by his actions, but he did it anyway.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

j*oono — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 03:36:49 GMT

I don't think all animals feel empathy but certainly some do. For example dogs can show great concern for others and yet a sheep will just walk away and leave a newborn if it is feeble.

Also there is such a thing as a Judas sheep that will lead others up the ramp to slaughter. I don't think it feels any empathy.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

lind9650 — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 03:43:22 GMT

I agree with lady-G, but regarding animals I am not so sure.

Once upon a time I lived in a house that backed up against the local pound. One very hot day we saw a young goat tied to a stake, no shade, no water. The poor thing was just laying there. Our little foxy-whipped cross kept running through the fence back and fforth, barking at us. When my OH took a dish with water, climbed over the fnce and placed it next to the goat, also attached some hessian to some stakes for a bit of shade, our dog sat down next to the goat and would not come home. He stayed there until the next day when OH rang the Shire and someone came to remove the goat that had died overnight.

Why would our beloved dog abandon his comfortable bed and food dish to keep company with a sick and dying animal if he had no empathy?

Erica

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

the_great_she_elephant — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 04:01:13 GMT

@j*oono wrote:
I don't think all animals feel empathy but certainly some do. For example dogs can show great concern for others and yet a sheep will just walk away and leave a newborn if it is feeble.
Also there is such a thing as a Judas sheep that will lead others up the ramp to slaughter. I don't think it feels any empathy.

What about preditory animals and I'm thinking particularly of chimpanzees who sometimes hunt, kill and eat colobus monkeys. Do they have any awareness of the fear and pain they cause their prey?

And what about those in terrorist groups - particularly ISIS.They can't all be psychopaths, so, regardless of any religious or nationalistic motives, are they unable to imagine what it feels like to be their victims or do they understand but just not care?

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

*mrgrizz* — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 04:14:10 GMT

is Bob being channelled through you somehow?

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

kilroy_is_here — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 04:15:15 GMT

You don't need to be a phsycopath to hurt or kill others, you can be indoctrinated into believing that certain types of people are below you or sub human, from there it is a very small step to justify harming or killing that group of people, by marking a group as sub human or just above animals it makes it easier to treat them as disposable , hitler did it with the Jews , Isis are doing it with any one who dis agrees with them

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

azureline** — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 04:28:32 GMT

I think empathy is also a trait in some animals, just as in some humans.

As for those who kill or hurt others, I do believe there is something lacking in their psyche, people who join cults for example.................. usually an issue with their mental state.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

cherry*135 — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 04:36:04 GMT

Self-absorbed people (narcissitic personality) have little or no empathy for others. That doesn't mean they would be capable of or willing to intentionally kill someone though.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

polksaladallie — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 05:07:57 GMT

I think people here have confused empathy with sympathy.

You have empathy with, and sympathy for.

Empathy and Sympathy

Writers often confuse empathy and sympathy. These two words are similar in meaning, but they are not the same. If you use the wrong one, you will either change the meaning of your sentence or be spotted as someone who doesn't know the difference.

Empathy denotes the ability to understand and share the feelings of another (having shared the same, or a similar, experience).

Sympathy denotes feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

cmcoins2000 — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 05:48:28 GMT

@kilroy_is_here wrote:
You don't need to be a phsycopath to hurt or kill others, you can be indoctrinated into believing that certain types of people are below you or sub human, from there it is a very small step to justify harming or killing that group of people, by marking a group as sub human or just above animals it makes it easier to treat them as disposable , hitler did it with the Jews , Isis are doing it with any one who dis agrees with them

And what about SLAVERY.

The buying & selling of human beings, the conditions they were forced to endure, the harsh treatment & worst of all being denied 'freedom'.

Mainly occured in 'so called Christian' societies.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

polksaladallie — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 06:10:30 GMT

@cmcoins2000 wrote:
And what about SLAVERY.

The buying & selling of human beings, the conditions they were forced to endure, the harsh treatment & worst of all being denied 'freedom'.

Mainly occured in 'so called Christian' societies.

Is still occurring this very minute. Humans trafficked into slavery and worse, aged from before birth to who knows what age.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

i-need-a-martini — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:26:21 GMT

Personally I believe that empathy is the single most important human trait to have. Nothing else is as important.

It can be innate - children generally have it anyway - and then we lose it as we grow 'wiser' and older unless we work hard to keep it.

My father taught me to always look at all issues from all sides and all possibilities and to ask the "what if" question about anything/anyone I was unsure about. I am bringing my kids up exactly the same way.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

kilroy_is_here — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:26:51 GMT

@cmcoins2000 wrote:
@kilroy_is_here wrote:
You don't need to be a phsycopath to hurt or kill others, you can be indoctrinated into believing that certain types of people are below you or sub human, from there it is a very small step to justify harming or killing that group of people, by marking a group as sub human or just above animals it makes it easier to treat them as disposable , hitler did it with the Jews , Isis are doing it with any one who dis agrees with them
And what about SLAVERY.

The buying & selling of human beings, the conditions they were forced to endure, the harsh treatment & worst of all being denied 'freedom'.

Mainly occured in 'so called Christian' societies.

gee you need to look at history a little closer slavery has taken place in just about every society for thousands of years it well and truly pre dates christian society by a very long time, its been happening for as long as genocide has, standard military practice for lots of armies was to invade a town kill all the men of fighting age enslave the women and children of non fighting age and move their own people into the town

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

i-need-a-martini — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:32:14 GMT

Do animals feel emapthy or is it a purely human trait.?

I think they do. Dolphns and dogs are a good example.

Is it something intrinsic to human nature, or a learned emotion?

Both. Babies cry when they hear other babies cry. Children reach out to other children when they are hurt. But it also needs to be reinforced as they grow older or they lose it.

Is it something we all have or a luxury only affordable by those for whom life is not a continual struggle for survival?

People that struggle still have empatht. In fact I would suggest that they have more. A good example is the many tests done that show that poorer people are most likely to give money to someone in need.

Can you empathise with someone and still treat them like bleep?

No. People who don't have empathy are not nice people in general.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

twyngwyn — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:48:07 GMT

an old boss of mine was certainly a sociopath....lacked empathy (among other things) but would 'behave' sympathetically if it was in his interest. I don't think you can fake empathy - you either have it or you don't

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

the_great_she_elephant — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 10:35:10 GMT

Some really interesting comments.

As most of you know, I am a writer of children's fiction and empathy - being able to imagine what it would be like to be one of my characters and understand what makes them tick - is an essential tool of my trade. But being able to empathise with my characters des not mean I have to sympthise with them, one or two of them have been most unpleasant.

when I think of the difference between empathy and sympathy I am reminded of the words of Dame Mary Gilmore in her poem Nationality.

All men at God's round table sit

And all men must be fed,

But this loaf in my hand,

This loaf is my son's bread.

Maybe it is sympathy, not empathy, that is only affordabl to those for whom life is not a continual struggle for survival.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

j*oono — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 14:36:30 GMT

I think you have it all wrong She_el. Why would any person not feel empathy? Just because they haven't experienced a situation doesn't mean they can't imagine what it would be like.

An empathetic judge might set a lighter sentence. A sympathetic judge that didn't empathise would send a slightly harsher sentence. One that felt neither of those feelings would bring down the full force of the law.

Re: Empathy - a Philosophical Discussion.

i-need-a-martini — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 19:45:49 GMT

Joono - I agree you don't think you need experience something to feel empathy. But I there ARE people that do not have empathy at all.

There are some good examples on CS. I feel empathy with refugees but I have never been one. My empathy comes from my ability to put myself in their shoes and understand why they are doing what they are doing. Yet there are many on this forum who show a complete lack of empathy and do all they can disassociating themselves form understanding how these people feel.