topic Re: Public service decentralisation in Community Spirit

Public service decentralisation

davidc4430 — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 08:54:55 GMT

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-19/public-service-decentralisation-backlash-labor/8454598

and could not anyone in the press ask, who is going to pay for all this 'decentralisation'?

setting up who knows how many satelite agencies isnt going to be free

and of course IF it happens we all know after a few years some bright spark will be anouncing the 'huge' saving they will make by bringing all these spreadout agencies closer together.

Re: Public service decentralisation

myoclon1cjerk — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 09:03:32 GMT

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-01/public-servants-forced-to-work-from-mcdonalds-in-armidale/8313796

Re: Public service decentralisation

davidc4430 — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 09:21:41 GMT

"Nationals MP Andrew Broad defended the situation, saying it would not be a permanent arrangement."

really? it wont be a permanent arrangement mate, omg, so glad you clarified that.

it bloomin well shouldnt be a one day arrangement!

when will we (the taxpayers) be getting billed for personal trainers to help these workers lose weight from eating too many McFatburgers?

Re: Public service decentralisation

tasfleur — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 10:08:50 GMT

"McFatburgers"

Re: Public service decentralisation

lyndal1838 — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 10:50:08 GMT

I regularly speak to ATO staff in Albury, an Insurance company call centre in Parkes NSW and NRMA staff in Adelaide, Perth and (a new one on me) Auckland New Zealand.

That doesn't take into account the stores, credit card companies and telcos with overseas call centres which have been around for ages.

It really is no big deal these days as most of the numbers are 1800 or 13/1300 calls anyway.

Re: Public service decentralisation

davidc4430 — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:21:12 GMT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-aMZmDCvA

Re: Public service decentralisation

davidc4430 — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 00:08:29 GMT

APVMA boss Kareena Arthy quits as relocation to Barnaby Joyce's Armidale electorate looms

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-20/apvma-boss-quits-as-relocation-to-joyces-electorate-looms/8459268

well this ones working out well isnt it barnaby?

might be easy to push poor people around but not the smart people who can get jobs easily elswhere huh.

maybe you can bring in some new clever people on 457 visas?

Re: Public service decentralisation

chameleon54 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 00:10:05 GMT

The idea does have some merit. With the ridiculous house prices in Melbourne and Sydney, people have to start realising they cant just keep piling into the two biggies without having stupidly high mortgages, chronic traffic jams to work, sprawling suburbs with no ammenities and declining standards of living. Top that off with the urban wastelands and ghettos that form on the fringes and it is a huge social problem that has to be addressed somehow.

The truth is Australia is a huge country and the recent rise of the internet means many people can work from any location now. Decentralisation will result in better domestic living conditions for all concerned. Its just that people are too stupid to see it and too stuck in their ways to even consider change.

Re: Public service decentralisation

lurker172602 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 01:10:31 GMT

With respect chameleon that's a bit of a furphy. The public servants they are pushing to move are not in Sydney and Melbourne. They are in a relatively small regional city that just happens to be called Canberra.

What they are pushing for is to decimate one regional centre for the sake of others, usually in their own electorate *looking at you Barnaby*.

My family live in Canberra. Two DiLs are in the PS. Who will have to give up their job if they are in a dept slated to move? DiL or son? Should their children have to change schools and sporting groups etc because of some temporary pollies brain fart?

Even worse imagine a working couple, one working in Dept of Finance the other in Environment. Wife's position gets moved to Geelong, husbands to Ipswich. What are they supposed to do?

The PS is not like the Defence force or similar roles where you know when you sign on that postings are part of the deal and you are compensated accordingly.

Lets also take take a look at the many many small businesses in Canberra that would be adversely affected if this goes ahead. Coffee shops, independent supermarkets, brickies, plumbers. Should they just up and move to try to follow the work or stay and wither on the vine in Canberra, slowly going broke because of declining trade?

This whole idea is just a stupid populist thought bubble, started by Barnaby's pork barrelling, that will do nothing to increase efficiencies (probably quite the reverse) but will cost huge amounts of money and cause great anguish to many ordinary Australians trying to do their best.

Re: Public service decentralisation

davidc4430 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 01:53:46 GMT

but...but... public servants arnt real people are they?

the way govts hire and fire them as if they have no lives outside their jobs would make most of us think they are like blue biros.

the pollies pop into the stationary cabinet when setting up an office or whatever and book out all the stuff they need including staff.

set up the new shop and its all hunky dory.

then the day comes to close that shop/office you just 'dispose' of all that stuff, all gone now, lets move on.

no no, them public servants just get put out with the rubbish, they are no more important than a used biro.

Re: Public service decentralisation

lurker172602 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 02:12:38 GMT

but...but... public servants arnt real people are they?

You'd think not david, by the way some talk about them 😏

Re: Public service decentralisation

chameleon54 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 07:16:26 GMT

@davidc4430 wrote:
but...but... public servants arnt real people are they?

the way govts hire and fire them as if they have no lives outside their jobs would make most of us think they are like blue biros.
the pollies pop into the stationary cabinet when setting up an office or whatever and book out all the stuff they need including staff.
set up the new shop and its all hunky dory.
then the day comes to close that shop/office you just 'dispose' of all that stuff, all gone now, lets move on.

no no, them public servants just get put out with the rubbish, they are no more important than a used biro.

A stable public service ( at least in some departments ) is actually quite important for our national interest, providing some behind the scenes stability to counteract our increasingly disjointed and short sighted, 3 year term politicians.

That said, the reality is the whole Australian work force is becoming more unstable and casualised and public servants ( despite what they think ) are no more " special " than anyone else.

My teenage son has just relocated 250 km to find work as there is high youth unemployment where we live. I also make the 250 km. journey and join him 3 days a week as he does not know anyone in the area and lives on an isolated farm. If its good enough for me and my son, its good enough for Canberra based public servants. Why do public servants think they are any better than me and many others who relocate for work reasons..

Get over yourselves people. No one is forcing you to work for the PS. .....Go where the work is or join the dole ques .........just like everyone else.

Re: Public service decentralisation

lurker172602 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 08:04:27 GMT

The thing is they are currently where the work is. It's the work that's moving. At enormous expense and no benefit to anyone other than the politicians whose electorate they may be moving to.

Re: Public service decentralisation

chameleon54 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 08:54:29 GMT

@lurker172602 wrote:
The thing is they are currently where the work is. It's the work that's moving. At enormous expense and no benefit to anyone other than the politicians whose electorate they may be moving to.

An efficient, well managed, productive public service is absolutely essential for Australias well being. It also makes logical sense that Key Public service departments are based in Canberra near our political centre. Departments such as finance, the ABS, defence heads etc. are integral in providing government with advice on policy matters.

The problem is that the Australian public service has become bloated to the extent that 1 in 6 employees ( 16.4 % according to the ABS. ) in Australia is a public servant. This is a huge burden for the five other private sector workers who have to carry and pay for the overpaid and underworked public servant. It means that essentially 20% of thier wealth each year goes to carry this dead weight.

We have a whole city ( Canberra ) built on the public purse. It only produces TWO THINGS. That is hot air and RED TAPE and huge amounts of it. Because we are one of the most over-governed nations in the world, this red tape is strangling our productive sectors, making it even harder for the 5 non government sector workers to carry the bloated public servant riding on their backs.

OK OK. Before you all reach for the poison pens, not all public servants are bludgers. We all know them personally and the simple law of averages would mean most of us have public servants in our families. Heck I worked as a PS myself for around 10 years and I reckon half of my family are currently employed by the public service. They range from basic levels such as teachers and nurses to senior state administrators and one young niece who is currently being groomed as a future head of one of our largest and most important departments. ( At 19 years of age she is already lunching with the most senior people, has met with the GG etc. ) The most amazing part of this story is she is just a simple girl from the country who has made good.

But the simple truth is, every Government of both colours has not been game to touch the organisation due to the huge influence it has on Government. It has become bloated, top heavy, inefficient and worst of all, TOO EXPENSIVE. We simply can no longer afford all of the public servants we employ. The public service needs to be trimmed down, tuned up, sorted out and in some cases moved out to decentralise our population and keep our administrators in touch with the real world, rather than being closseted up in their tax payer funded " Golden City."

Re: Public service decentralisation

davidc4430 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 09:21:51 GMT

you do realise that a good portion of the 'public servants' whos jobs will suddenly vanish and reapear who knows where cant or wont uproot their lives and familys and follow said job dont you?

therefore in moving these jobs will create a problem. the govt will have to find and train replacments for the staff who decide to stay put and look for work in another department or business.

or start paying them the dole until they find some other form of income.

so yes lots of people do move for work but not many move because their job stopped being in canberra and suddenly was in broome!

and with no guarantee that once they move to broome ms deputy deputy leader person doesnt decide nah, not broome lets move em to mt gambier!

i'm sure though if they like to give these public servants the same pay deal the pollies have ie: free fly in fly out and free accomodation wherever it is they need to go to work maybe many more will take the deal.

Re: Public service decentralisation

davidc4430 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 09:26:42 GMT

oh, and please stop the whole

please dont shoot me

and

dont take out the poison pens

its childish.

its a discussion, not a war.

BTW i'm sure there are plenty of "BLUDGERS" in the private sector. most of them drive very nice cars and work on the top floor until their bludging causes the business to go bellyup leaving the workers without their dues!

Re: Public service decentralisation

lurker172602 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 09:53:37 GMT

I think you are confusing your own argument.

I'm not sure of the statistics, but I am sure most of the 1 in 6 employees you are referring to, being made up of teachers, nurses et al, are not living and working in Canberra.

And really? It only produces TWO THINGS. That is hot air and RED TAPE and huge amounts of it. That's pretty disingenuous and uncalled for.

Successive governments have in fact slashed tthe public service upon coming into office for several cycles now. It's easy points for them. The fact that departments then have to casualise their workforce to effect outcomes which then costs more is not the fault of the working stiff turning up each day.

Re: Public service decentralisation

lurker172602 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 09:58:36 GMT

Sorry, just one more point before I go.

Can someone one tell me how bringing what was a "working family", i.e., one with two, or more, employed members, to a regional town where only one of them is now guaranteed work, is going to help that community. Won't that put more stress on the already fragile regional economy?

Re: Public service decentralisation

chameleon54 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:06:53 GMT

@davidc4430 wrote:
oh, and please stop the whole

please dont shoot me

and

dont take out the poison pens

its childish.

its a discussion, not a war.

BTW i'm sure there are plenty of "BLUDGERS" in the private sector. most of them drive very nice cars and work on the top floor until their bludging causes the business to go bellyup leaving the workers without their dues!

No .... I havnt reported your post, I would much rather address it directly.

I must say I am a little dissapointed david. Whilst we obviously dont always agree on political discussion I actually did think you where one of the posters who was willing to engage in discussion, rather than make uncalled for personal attacks on the individual when you where no longer able to defend your position on debate. It is "personal attack" ( in breach of board policy ) type posts such as this that have resulted in many former contributors leaving the forums, reducing contributions and making the place much less diverse than it would otherwise have been. I would politely suggest it is your childish interpersonal post, devoid of discussion or debate that is the problem here.

No-one can justify Australia having 16.4 % of its population employed as public servents. We are the most over goverened nation in the developed world and it is stifling productivity and incredibly wasteful. Changes have to be made and obviously Public servants are not going to like it and will be screaming from there Canberra based roof tops whenever changes are suggested.

Re: Public service decentralisation

chameleon54 — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 01:07:23 GMT

@davidc4430 wrote:

BTW i'm sure there are plenty of "BLUDGERS" in the private sector. most of them drive very nice cars and work on the top floor until their bludging causes the business to go bellyup leaving the workers without their dues!

This is exactly what is happening to the Australian economy right now. Our national eceonomy is going " bellyup" as we can no longer afford the bloated, inefficient public service we have. ITS SENDING US BROKE.

Reading through the posts on this thread, I havnt seen anyone suggesting public servants are bludgers. On the contrary, I have indicated that many of the individuals I know working in the PS are working hard, delivering services that are vital to Australias well being.

The problem is there is simply too many public sevants. This has resulted in an inefficient, poorly managed sector, often with moral problems at ground level. Just take a look at out once invaluable TAFE institutions to see the decline and mess that constant meddling and retainment of surplus, permenant staff can do. This organisation was once highly regarded for its contribution to vocational training. Now its just an inefficient wasteful joke.

When agriculture was booming in the 1970,s and early 80,s and mining was bringing in wealth to our nation in the 1990,s and 2000,s the burden of employing all of those public servants was at least managable. Succesive governments have ALL added extra numbers to service as the PS lobby has become so large, it is now a major voting block that neither side can ignore. The result is, now that our economy is in decline, the true extent of past lagresses has been exposed.

As 16.4 % of the working population is employed by the Government, we are now in the position that at its most basic level, it takes 20% of non government sector workers wealth, to pay for the salary of each individual public servant. The percentage could actually be even higher than this as most public servants, recieve wages above the mediun average. This is just the direct PS salaries. On top of this the we have to provide them with places to work and supporting infrastructure such as transport, communications etc. We are grossly overgoverened and over regulated, which is restraining ecenomic and social development.

Our public service and political class has simply outgrown our national need and ability to actually pay for it. Changes have to made and they need to be much larger changes than simply re-arranging the deck chairs by moving offices somewhere else.

Its time to do some radical pruning of our government and public service sectors.