topic Re: Mungo Man Comes Home in Community Spirit

Mungo Man Comes Home

icyfroth — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 07:58:10 GMT

Mungo Man returned to ancestral home where he died 40,000 years ago

Traditional owners say the return of the remains of the historic Mungo Man, who was removed by scientists from his resting place more than 40 years ago, will provide closure and is a step toward reconciliation.

More than four decades ago anthropologists removed the ancient skeleton of an Aboriginal man, the discovery of which rewrote Australian history.

Now he has been returned home to his descendants, travelling for days in a hearse from Canberra.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-17/mungo-man-returned-to-ancestral-home/9159840

Can Australia's mordern Indiginous ppl really lay claim to him as an ancestor though?

An article from ABC science in 2001 says the following:

"In a technical tour de force, a team led by Thorne has extracted and analysed parts of a single gene from Mungo Man. More stunning still, the researchers claim that what they discovered is that the man's DNA is unlike anything they have ever seen. While Mungo Man was undoubtedly fully modern anatomically, he came from a genetic lineage that is now extinct."

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2001/01/01/2813404.htm

So if his lineage is now extinct, how can today's aborigines be his descendants?

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

davidc4430 — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 10:12:28 GMT

i'm so sorry but every time ive heard the word 'Mungo' i have thought of the guy in Blazing Saddles.

Blazing Saddles _ Candygram for Mongo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH6_kasOHac

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

icyfroth — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 10:41:54 GMT

No surprises there, lol

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

lind9650 — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 11:08:08 GMT

In 40,000 years a lot has changed in the whole world.

Because nobody knows who was here before the indigenous Australians, they can claim ancestors through their Dreaming time stories.

The whole world was once just one continent, until natural disasters split it into pieces millions of years ago. Even today we know that the plates are shifting and Australia is moving north.

Who knows what scientists and archaeologists will discover and interpetrate in another 40.000 years?

Before Captain Cook, other nations used to visit Australia and trade with the native people, but nobody thought of invading the country and taking it forcefully.

But this is another story.

Let the native people have their Dreaming Time and a past to hang on to. Science has not always been right.

Erica

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

johcaschro — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 14:07:52 GMT

Maybe . . . just maybe . . . the Aussie Aboriginal boat people "invaded" via South East Asia and caused the extinction of the more ancient Mungo man people.

No one really knows, do they?

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

icyfroth — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 19:01:54 GMT

Well...that's the general line of thinking in scientific circles. That the current aboriginals of Australia were not the first inhabitants of Australia.

You're right though, we'll never know, so claims can be made that cannot be disproven.

What is proven through DNA testing is that the line of Mungo Man is extinct, so there cannot be living descendants of him.

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

springyzone — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:47:48 GMT

What an interesting find that was!

DNA testing has come a long way. I once read about ancient remains found in Cheddar caves in England. Cheddar man.

But the amazing thing was they were able to trace DNA relationship to someone who was living in a nearby village.

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

davidc4430 — Sat, 18 Nov 2017 22:07:57 GMT

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

icyfroth — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 00:41:50 GMT

@springyzone wrote:
What an interesting find that was!
DNA testing has come a long way. I once read about ancient remains found in Cheddar caves in England. Cheddar man.

But the amazing thing was they were able to trace DNA relationship to someone who was living in a nearby village.

For a moment I thought you were joking, so I looked it up! Thanks for posting!

Cheddar Man is a human male fossil found in Gough's Cave in Cheddar Gorge, Somerset, England. The skeletal remains date to the Mesolithic, and it appears that he died a violent death. A large crater-like lesion just above the skull's right orbit suggests that the man may have also been suffering from a bone infection at the time. It is Britainâ€™s oldest complete human skeleton

http://www.ancient-origins.net/history/9000-year-old-cheddar-man-has-living-descendant-still-living-same-area-006961

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

bright.ton42 — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 02:22:22 GMT

This is fascinating.

Cheddar Man’s Family

The DNA of Adrian Targett, who was 42 years old when that discovery was made, was found to match that belonging to Cheddar Man. According to science, this genetic fingerprint is said to have been passed down from mother to child. In other words, Targett and Cheddar Man both share a common maternal ancestral. It may be added that Targett was not the only one from his family to have not moved away from his ancestral land. It was reported that there were 46 individuals in his extended family, and most of them had remained in the Somerset area.

So Adrian Targett was 42 years old in 1903 and this indicates that his forebears all lived in Somerset for around 9000 years?

Have I got this right?.

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

icyfroth — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 20:44:29 GMT

I think it mean Targett was 42 when it was discovered that Cheddar Man had descendants still living in the area, Bright.

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

springyzone — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 21:51:02 GMT

bright.ton42 wrote:This is fascinating. So Adrian Targett was 42 years old in 1903 and this indicates that his forebears all lived in Somerset for around 9000 years?Have I got this right?.

-------------------------

As icy says, I think it means Adrian Targett was 42 when the DNA matching was done in 1997.But you're right in that it seems to indicate that some of his maternal forebears had been in the region for thousands of years.

In 1997, it was reported that a living descendant of Cheddar Man had been found. In the report, it was written that DNA had been found in the pulp cavity of one of Cheddar Man's molars. The DNA was examined at Oxford Universitys Institute of Molecular Medicine. The results from the analysis were then compared with the DNA of 20 local individuals whose families were known to have been living in Cheddar for several generations. One of these individuals was identified as a descendant of Cheddar Man.

I suppose it sounds odd to us because we're used to a world where people move around a lot. People might drive 30km a day just to go to work. But from what i have read of a lot of English villages in the distant past, a lot of people stayed closer to home.

Also the thing to remember is there weren't that many people on earth back then, that's the thing that's hardest for me to get my head around. I understand it but don't always factor it in. I think what it comes down to though is there could be millions of people on earth now who are descendants of Cheddar Man. I read a book by Bryan Sykes a while back, really enjoyable it was, called "Seven daughters of Eve". It's about the mitachodrial DNA & from memory, I think that's where I first read of Cheddar man.

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

bright.ton42 — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 23:53:46 GMT

Tks springy, It sounds a fascinating book, i think i will add it to one of the Christmas presents i will give to myself.

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

this-one-time-at-bandcamp — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 05:28:35 GMT

That's Swiss Cheese Man.........from the region around Geneva.

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

not_for_sale — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 05:37:56 GMT

@johcaschro wrote:
Maybe . . . just maybe . . . the Aussie Aboriginal boat people "invaded" via South East Asia and caused the extinction of the more ancient Mungo man people.

No one really knows, do they?

I've heard a theory about that. I think they were called Mungo Jerry!

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

davidc4430 — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 05:56:21 GMT

@not_for_sale2017 wrote:
@johcaschro wrote:
Maybe . . . just maybe . . . the Aussie Aboriginal boat people "invaded" via South East Asia and caused the extinction of the more ancient Mungo man people.

No one really knows, do they?

I've heard a theory about that. I think they were called Mungo Jerry!

Oh, Thanks!

now ive got Lady Rose in my head!

da dee dah dee, dah dee dah dah, my lady rose, my lady my lady lady rose....

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

not_for_sale — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:06:54 GMT

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 06:47:24 GMT

A new look at ancient bones with the latest DNA technology has confirmed Aboriginal Australians as the continent's first people.

Researchers say the findings overturn a 2001 paper that argued the oldest known Australian human remains found near Lake Mungo in New South Wales were from an extinct lineage of modern humans that occupied the continent before Aboriginal Australians.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2016-06-07/dna-confirms-aboriginal-people-as-the-first-australians/7481360

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

sandypas — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:57:13 GMT

Never thought I would see a discussion on Mungo Man.

We hire a house every year at Mildura and the owner lives next door. He helps the indigenous people in the area

and one night he bought a koori man to join us at a bbq. He told us the story of Mungo Man and sang us the song

he had written and was singing at the ceremony when they brought Mungo Man home. He also gave us a copy of

the cd. It was very interesting.

Re: Mungo Man Comes Home

icyfroth — Thu, 23 Nov 2017 00:47:10 GMT

johcaschro wrote:

Maybe . . . just maybe . . . the Aussie Aboriginal boat people "invaded" via South East Asia and caused the extinction of the more ancient Mungo man people.

No one really knows, do they?

________________________________

History does tend to repeat itself, and it;always the boart ppl isn't it?

I suppose, Australia being an island continent, it would always be the boat ppl causing trouble, lol.