topic Re: Postage extortion from seller. in Buying

Postage extortion from seller.

chameleon54 — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:48:43 GMT

I have recently purchased a number of books from a seller who advised that he combined post for multiple purchases. Weight of the books is around 7 - 8 kg. On invoice the seller kindly gave a $10 deduction on postage leaving a post cost of $65. Two 5 kg. satchels would cost around $36 or if boxed and mailed, post cost with tracking would be around the same as the box would weigh maybe 8 kg. ( Aust Post cubing would not affect cost ) I dont mind paying a bit extra for packing and handling but $40 !!!! Have tried to contact seller but no reply. Worst case senario is I pay up and leave multiple Negative feedbacks. Any suggestions on handling this appreciated.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

zo_bella — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:54:13 GMT

Did you ask about postage before buying ? Did you check all postage deatails in listing before ordering ?

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

putney32 — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:55:40 GMT

technically,... the seller does not have to give you a discount on the multi lot purchase

I agree he's overcharging, but it is not against ebay rules, and unless you got a ''quote'' for the amount he'd actually charge, you are obliged to pay it.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

digital*ghost — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:00:30 GMT

@ausflylady wrote:
Did you ask about postage before buying ?

Pretty much just this.

You should never assume that a seller is going to package / post / charge what you expect them to based on a "will combine post" line in a listing. Sometimes all that will mean is that they'll post all the items in the same parcel, as combining items means just that, and doesn't atcually mean getting a postage discount.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

chameleon54 — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:09:02 GMT

Admittedly just relied on the seller to "do the right thing" as I have never had this problem before and as said dont worry if seller charges a small fee for handling. One small technicality is the seller used file photos of new books for second hand items, so the items will not match the photos. " item not as described " perhaps. ??? Unfortunatly there are a few idiots out there in eBayland spoiling it for the majority that try to do the right thing.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

phorum_junkie* — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:26:32 GMT

You have no idea how the seller is going to send them, if they want Paypal seller protection they cannot post them in separate satchels, they must be in one parcel. You have no idea if the parcel will be cubed or not, you have no idea what other packaging materials the seller will be using nor what extra tracking and insurance they are going to pay. They discounted you ten dollars, I don't know how many books you bought but they are perfectly entitled to add a dollar or two for each one on top of the delivery cost.

You should have established a firm quote before buying and if you didn't there is nothing you can do about it, the seller has done as they said they would and given you a discount.

To say that you are prepared to open a not as described dispute just because you perceive an overcharge when you clearly knew very well the seller used stock photos means you are less than honorable, don't be surprised if you find yourself on a few BBLs!

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

digital*ghost — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:29:31 GMT

Were these the 5 manuals you won today at auction for $5 each? (I did a quick search of your bidding history, and these were the only ones I could see that used stock photos).

If so, the seller doesn't atcually state on any of those listings that they combine postage, not that that's any excuse for overcharging or having an excessive P&H cost, just that - while perhaps unfortunate that it's necessary - due diligence really is the key, i.e. making sure you know exactly what you're getting in for before placing a bid.

I personally would not advocate spurious INAD claims, as the listings do have some description despite the use of stock photos (thankfully, new policies being implemented will mean sellers will not be able to use stock photos for used items).

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

chameleon54 — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:31:24 GMT

True I dont know how the seller plans to ship them, because they havnt replied to any of my genuinly polite messages. Your remarks are a little harsh I feel.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

chameleon54 — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:36:42 GMT

Combined postage was noted on other manuals listings. If you go back and check sellers current listings, you will see relisted item with combined post offered.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

polocross58 — Tue, 23 Jul 2013 22:45:47 GMT

Chameleon, there's quite a bit of this 'grab grab' mentality going on

A seller tried it on with me a while back. So I emailed to ask if they intended to post each item separately. Then I waited for the response

No. They intended to put several items in the one receptacle. Therefore, one lot of postage

I emailed again to ask if they would therefore explain the combined postage cost they were attempting to charge me

A bit of fluffing around in the response, followed by a revised (down) postage quote

I thought that was still too high, so asked for an explanation

There really wasn't one, apart from the fact the seller must have intended to simply take my money in the belief they could get away with it. In the end, I paid no more than I believed was fair and all was well

This is why ebay provides you the opportunity to rate postage in Feedback

Many sellers have less than perfect stars in their Postage Cost Feedback. This tells it's own story and indicates previous buyers have believed the seller charged them too much for postage

So right there, you have the opportunity to say your piece in Feedback when it comes to stars for postage. And if the seller goes ahead and rips you off on postage, I'd be marking down his Feedback stars for postage, first off. And you'd be justified in doing so. Takes quite a bit, after going to work, paying tax, to save $40. That's your $40. And from what you say, a seller intends to take your $40. If that happened in a supermarket or anywhere else, you'd be speaking your mind and you'd be justified in doing so AND in making every effort to get your $40 back. You should do the same on ebay. It's just a market place after all

So don't be cowed by responses trying to lay the blame on you. Sellers stick together and it's primarily sellers who respond to people like you. You are NOT to blame. You're a decent individual who's being ripped off. I'm a buyer like you. Therefore my perspective is far different to sellers covering for each other and treating buyers like a lower life form

If I were you, yes, I'd leave the seller Negs all the way in plain, provable speak, i.e. ' Postage was way too high in my opinion. Cannot recommend'. Or, 'Won't buy here again' . And I'd mark down his postage stars way down in Feedback also. I'd be getting my pound of flesh. After all, books are hard to sell online because of postage.

Combined postage to me and to most other buyers means all items go in the one bag or box and the only postage cost is what it costs at the post office, plus price of bag or box. That's what most people assume 'combined post' to mean. But there are always greedy desperates who take you for a fool. And I'd be dealing with them via Feedback. One: to get even. Two: to warn others

You're too polite. I used to be like that. We're taught not to argue about mere money. Well, ebay and the Entitlement Brigade weren't raised like us. They were taught to jump in with both hands and grab everything they can. So, as you're on ebay, you have to learn the language of the natives ... speak their language and don't assume anyone can be trusted unless they've proved to you they can. You have to toughen up. That's your money. No one has the right to use your innate decency to steal it from you. And if they manage to do it .... make them pay in the way that will hurt them most ... via their precious Feedback

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

lyndal1838 — Tue, 23 Jul 2013 06:50:16 GMT

Yes, you could open a Not As Described dispute if you have no conscience, but you would be expected the return the books to the seller by trackable post to get your refund.

How much would that leave you out of pocket, and with no books?

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

davewil1964 — Tue, 23 Jul 2013 07:31:43 GMT

It's not $40 anyway. The quote was $65 and the best the OP could find was $36, not counting packaging costs, SOD, insurance....

I don't have perfect postage cost stars and I charge exactly what it costs me for postage. Some buyers just can't be satisfied.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

retailtherapist_8 — Tue, 23 Jul 2013 07:35:40 GMT

I agree Dave, I subsidise all express postage to keep the post cost down & fast for my buyers and still my stars get dinged. I get fb saying as described and fast and still I get dinged. Just cant make some people happy not matter what you do. Its very frustrating.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

jplus* — Tue, 23 Jul 2013 08:10:32 GMT

@chameleon54 wrote:
I have recently purchased a number of books from a seller who advised that he combined post for multiple purchases. Weight of the books is around 7 - 8 kg. On invoice the seller kindly gave a $10 deduction on postage leaving a post cost of $65. Two 5 kg. satchels would cost around $36 or if boxed and mailed, post cost with tracking would be around the same as the box would weigh maybe 8 kg. ( Aust Post cubing would not affect cost ) I dont mind paying a bit extra for packing and handling but $40 !!!! Have tried to contact seller but no reply. Worst case senario is I pay up and leave multiple Negative feedbacks. Any suggestions on handling this appreciated.

No, the seller is charging you for postage, what the seller is charged by the postal service is irrelevent. It can be confusing, but ebay supports and lists many type of "postage services", the seller selects one or more methods the item may sent and sets an amount.

Never expect the postage costs to be passed on 1:1, there is handling (time spent packing), extra packing and transport (fuel) to the post office that all must be taken into consideration.

Give em a break.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

digital*ghost — Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:45:54 GMT

@polocross58 wrote:

So don't be cowed by responses trying to lay the blame on you. Sellers stick together and it's primarily sellers who respond to people like you. You are NOT to blame. You're a decent individual who's being ripped off. I'm a buyer like you. Therefore my perspective is far different to sellers covering for each other and treating buyers like a lower life form

Nobody said the seller's actions were the buyer's fault - it was rather more suggested that the surprise (i.e. being caught unawares) was their fault. There's a difference.

I'm a buyer just as much as I'm a seller, so as far as I'm concerned, I have a pretty balanced perspective of trading on eBay. I don't band together with buyers or sellers, my actions and advice as either, or to either, are based on what I think is right, as well as what I know is possible. Whether the seller did something wrong morally is open for debate, but they definitely didn't do anything wrong insofar as eBay policies are concerned, and ultimately the only options the buyer has is to pay and be disgruntled about the P&H cost, or not pay and cop the probable strikes. Those are facts outside of any moral issues or debates, and I would prefer to base my replies to questions like this on those.

The time to negotiate postage is before purchase, and - keeping strictly to guidelines and policies here - the buyer is in no position, nor has any right - to dictate costs / postage methods, before or after the sale. Those costs and stated methods form part of the seller's terms - all of by which I mean a buyer can ask what the total cost for X items would be, they can ask if it can be done any cheaper, but they can not say "you have to post it for X amount", or "it won't cost you any more than X if you did it my way, so it's not going to cost me any more than X, either" etc. Well, I guess they can, but as a buyer I wouldn't dare and as a seller I wouldn't trade with someone who tried.

As an aside, personally, I rarely - if ever - tell anyone what kind of feedback to leave for a specific transaction, since I don't consider that how I feel about what they told me (usually just a snippet of all information) about said transaction should become the assessment for their experience.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

mandy-gs — Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:39:35 GMT

What if the seller is using a courier service and has extra insurace on the items? Be fair.

My wholesaler from the US charges $280 for postage to Australia for 6.5kg. The reason I use them - the packaging is superior and the product is the excellent.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

retailtherapist_8 — Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:34:33 GMT

Beautifully said digital spot on. Worth reading and balanced as usual.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

springyzone — Tue, 23 Jul 2013 22:10:13 GMT

I've been both a buyer and seller, although I mainly buy these days. Postage can be a difficult issue because I have noticed some buyers expect it at exactly cost price, at whatever Australia post might charge. I have friends who have made comments about being charged 'extra' and I have had to point out that bags, sticky tape, wrapping and handling-ie getting it to a post office, are all in the 'extra'.

There are also customers who have unrealistic views about how much the postage is likely to cost. I well recall the day we sold a snow suit(you know how thick those things are!) and the buyer emailed she was unhappy we weren't sending it in a 500g bag to save postage. No way on earth that could have been done.

On the other hand, I know I was peeved once to buy a very small item that had puzzlingly high postage. It arrived rattling around in a 3kg bag, so the seller obviously did spend the postage amount, but 5 of the items could have fitted in a 500g bag with room to spare. But I still gave her positive feedback, as after all, I bid on it and knew the terms.

I sometimes buy from an American and I suspect his turnover is so huge, he is subsidising overseas postage-how else can you explain only $2.50? I couldn't do it for that even to local addresses! yet other Americans can have a postage charge of $38 for a similar item. Maybe they are charging closer to the real costs.

All I can suggest is always work out likely postage costs beforehand and don't assume you'll get a big discount for combined postage.

With the present transaction, you don't have to go through with it, no one can force you to pay, that is the reality. It is your choice, but non payment may cause a strike against your name.

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

peppers-tree — Wed, 24 Jul 2013 00:26:41 GMT

When I feel that postage rate is too high, I politly ask the seller to break down the charged/quoted postage for me as I think it is a tad high... I almost always get an honest answer and sometimes a revised postage rate. If it is still too high, I look to see if the seller is new to selling and therefore new to postage rates, and suggest other cheaper ways to post. They are mostly grateful for the infomation....Everyone is happy...

Re: Postage extortion from seller.

curraone — Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:40:06 GMT

I think it will depend on what kind of seller you have - a new seller may not be aware that they cannot overcharge for postage

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/listing-shipping.html

POSTAGE POLICY Sellers may charge reasonable postage and handling fees to cover the costs for mailing, packaging, and handling the items they are selling. eBay will rely on member reports and other resources to determine whether or not a seller’s postage, handling, packaging, and/or insurance charges are excessive, inaccurate, misleading, unreasonable or unnecessary.

If you have not paid, I would write to them again, pointing out this policy and asking for a new invoice.

If it is only 8 kg, the amount is very high - using the click and send B4 box (assuming they fit) the cost would only be #18.25 to anywhere in Australia.