topic Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it? in Selling

Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

pennyforum14 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 00:06:18 GMT

I have been an eBayer for 15 years, sold for nearly 10, then took a break from selling and only returned a year ago.

I remember the time when, if a buyer had an issue, the very first thing they would do is contact the seller to see what they could do to fix it. Since returning to selling on eBay, I am now finding that, not all the time, but all too often, buyers are jumping in and lodging disputes or just going straight to leaving negs, without even bothering to contact the seller to express their dissatisfaction and see what could be done. Furthermore, they will often not respond to attempts to correct the problem, even when a seller offers a refund.

I believe this behaviour has been instilled in some buyers by eBay's blatant promotion of the MBG and defect system. It is far easier to push a button and request a refund through the system, than to write a message to the seller. Okay, I can understand that part, but what's with the neg thing? I have seen numerous posts in recent weeks and it has happened to me twice now, where the buyer just goes straight to negative feedback. The first you know there is a problem is when you see the red dot. I always contact the buyer, and ask what the problem is and offer a solution, which usually includes the offer of a refund, but on both occasions recently, there has been no response from the buyer. Why would they not want to accept a refund? And why are they so keen to jump to negs without contacting the seller first? Is it because all eBay's so called "buyer safety" measures actually do more to erode buyer's confidence in sellers than to make them feel safer?

Open for discussion......

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 00:22:44 GMT

Things were indeed different 15 years ago, there was little point in buyers starting disputes, except for expensive items, without contacting sellers as there was no Paypal and ebay only refunded any of the purchase price over $25. There was also the fact that buyers could receive neg feedback so were often given negs in return and as some people thought that mattered or they sold on the same id a lot of transactions that deserved negs didn't get them. When you also take into account that the number of members has increased by tens of thousands over the years it is no surprise that the number of disputes and negs has increased too.

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

raffta1 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 00:27:22 GMT

I am going through this as we speck. An item I have sent hasnt been recieved yet, its 1 day past the expected delivery. In the past I have had buyers email me and I am onto Auspost the same day if its before the close of business, or the next working day.

I keep the buyer informed and so far have only refunded once due to a non delivery as the rest got delivered with in a few days of me calling Auspost.

Buyers have been thankful and happy that I followed up quickly and kept them informed.

Well this one, went straight to the button, first I knew there was an issue. I responded straight away and advised the proccess I use that includes a refund it the item cannot be found. Well thats not good enough for some people, they want the refund NOW. I am holding my ground as I suspect I will get a neg anyway,going by the messages. But I do deserve the right to follow up with Auspost first.

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

pennyforum14 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 00:34:00 GMT

Some good points there, pj, I'd forgotten about the $25 threshold prior to Paypal's arrival. And the risk of negative feedback may also have a bearing on buyer actions. However, from my own experience, I have been back here selling since March last year, and did some one-off sales in the last few years before returning to selling full time, and for me, it seems buyer attitude changes didn't really start showing up until August last year when the defect system kicked in, and really ramped up form later in the year when the MBG happened. The bit that really has me stumped though is the lack of response after leaving a neg. It's almost like the buyer doesn't want a solution or even a refund, they just want the seller to receive a defect.

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

medalsbadgespatches — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 00:50:19 GMT

Classic example.

One of my best customers. Item returned to me by Australia Post as "RTS No Longer At This Address". Fair enough so I message them to say its been returned to me and and when they let me know the correct postal address I will repost it. Easy.

A couple of hours later I get this.

A request is open in the Resolution Centre

....let us know that they haven't received ... and has requested a postage status update.If you don't reply, or if the buyer isn't satisfied with the outcome by 08 Apr, 2015, the buyer can escalate the request

So its easier to open a request than to change your postal address.

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

mbselections00 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 01:34:42 GMT

@medalsbadgespatches wrote:
Classic example.

One of my best customers. Item returned to me by Australia Post as "RTS No Longer At This Address". Fair enough so I message them to say its been returned to me and and when they let me know the correct postal address I will repost it. Easy.

A couple of hours later I get this.
A request is open in the Resolution Centre
....let us know that they haven't received ... and has requested a postage status update.If you don't reply, or if the buyer isn't satisfied with the outcome by 08 Apr, 2015, the buyer can escalate the request

So its easier to open a request than to change your postal address.

That is just sad !!

Hopefully you don't cop a neg or a defect, but at least if you do, you will have your message and RTS parcel as evidence & justification for removal.

Having gone the Resolution Centre route as a way of responding though, I have a sickening feeling that's an automatic defect, which means you have to waste your time & energy fighting an unfair defect with no guarantee of winning these days either even when you have done everything correctly & are not at fault in any way

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

lane-ends — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 01:35:20 GMT

They no longer view sellers as mums and dads, they view sellers as indifferent corporations, and so go to the "victimless' resolution process. Ebay also promote it more as business than a community.

The fact is Ebay environment is a hard nose business environment where its dog eat dog to stay at the top. Good service now is about risk management and best result driven rather than warm and fuzzies.

No one wants reasons or excuses, they want results for least effort and they want them now, otherwise they will go shop at target where calculated losses are factored in as PR vs overall profit.

I think the full potential for scamming via the MBG has not been fully exploited as yet.

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

mbselections00 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 01:40:52 GMT

penny, I agree with what you have said in the main, however, I think the problem is they have actually instilled too much confidence in the Buyer, they now know full well they are the protected ones under this new system and can get away with pretty much anything - s***w the seller anyway they please, ebay will back them up . . . . just my opinion

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

pennyforum14 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 01:59:30 GMT

For a small (very small IMO) percentage of buyers I guess that is true, but the buyers in my situations are not using the system to get a refund, they are not even responding to accept the offered refund, they are not trying to gain anything for nothing, so I'd hardly call them scammers. It's more like they just assume the seller is a bad apple and couldn't be bothered seeking a resolution, just neg them and move on. BTW, neither of mine have a long history of such action.

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

bakeandfry — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 01:59:54 GMT

I think it boils down to miscommunication or misdirection if you will, for example when i first started on ebay i had no information from ebay what exactly to do, i operated by what was told to me (word of mouth).
Same thing when i first sold on ebay, ebay did not realy give me any real indication on how to list, how to block certain countrys i didn't want to post to, ect ect, thankfully though it was around this time that i found the boards (quite by fluke), it then dawned on me that the people on the boards were more helpfull than ebay itself.
I think that ebay need to educate the buyer and seller, plus make its trading platform fairer.

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

joethenuts — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 02:03:35 GMT

the problem is simple for so many years if a buyer does not get there parcel ,they would complain first to the seller ,and if the seller would not help they then would go to ebay ,,too many parcels go missing [main reason auspost,just have a look in the paper everyday letters are taking 3 weeks parcels are ariving 3 months later, would these buyers still buy from ebay ,the answere is no.

and can you blame them ,no, so this is the reason policys have to change ,[ebay are saying you need to get a signature or at least tracking ,now I know a lot of the sellers use envelopes , but if you have a couple of envelopes go missing a year ,except it ,its only small priced artices in them ,and everbody is happy ,look if you go into a shop you want service and its the same here on ebay.

look just the other day ,now forget about who was the buyer ,thats another story,but what in the hell would you place something that was worth $350 in an envelope with a stamp on it ,if you only allowed that amount for postage add a few extra dollars and parcel it or register it ,[common sence] its not worth the hassel wit posible problems.

look if auspost does not serve you well enough go ellsewear [but you dont have a choice if its envelopes, simple

would you put money on me in a spelling contest [no] you would back the other person mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 03:14:48 GMT

I only sell for half the year and now my listings for this session have all finished unless one of the two oe three who haven't received their parcels yet complain I have had fewer unpaid item disputes that hacen't resulted in a payment, only 2 across three ids and I have not had one dispute opened . I can only comment on my experiences but those show no pattern of escalation since the MBG or the defdct system were introduced.

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

digital*ghost — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 03:30:00 GMT

I've only been on eBay since 2008, my first foray into selling was 2009, and my store was opened late 2011, so I missed the early years. PayPal was mandatory when I started, so buyer protection was in play, and buyers couldn't get negative feedback, but I do feel that eBay is a different environment, and not necessarily because of the MBG, but that it has been a slow change.

You can see the difference most glaringly when you ask people who operate online businesses elsewhere, either via third party sites or their own websites. If you ask them how many INRs, returns, abusive / demanding / unreasonable buyers they experience compared to eBay, the ratio of poor experiences is always in favour of eBay. Many will actually tell you they've experienced nothing via other sites but plenty via eBay, which does suggest it's an eBay problem (well, there is some other problematic sites, ones with similar policies, and who eBay kinda look up to and copy).

The thing is, up until the last couple of months, I considered myself extremely lucky to have never experienced any of the behaviour I see spoken about on the boards. I don't know if it's the MBG or not, but up until Christmas last year, I had almost nothing but great experiences, wonderful buyers, people would nearly always contact me, and in fact I only ever had a couple who didn't. There were some I accepted as reasonable (neutrals that were fair because of the problem, but also otherwise complimentary), and a couple that were completely leftfield (a neg for INR - first I heard about it, so that's always been happening - and a neg that was removed because the buyer thought the item they bought was a different colour than it was described, who knows if eBay would remove such a neg these days). All in all, though, I never had a single PayPal dispute opened against me, nor a problem I didn't resolve to the buyer's satisfaction.

But, as I said, since Christmas, and a couple of months after the MBG, I have experienced the following:

INR request, accompanied with a message that suggested I didn't bother to send the item or let them know.
4 neutrals, 2 of which are for things the buyer would have known if they read the description, 1 that is unfathomable because there was no contact from the buyer and the entire comment is just a single dot, and one that was essentially buyer error.
One buyer who started messaging me daily to tell me how much my service sucked because they didn't get their item in a couple of days, and how upset they were about not getting the item. After 5 days of that, I gave up trying to communicate with them and refunded, suddenly they weren't upset they didn't receive the item or that I wasn't going to resend, then they just started messaging me about when they'd get the refund (already issued).
One INAD request, buyer complained that one of my handmade products wasn't made from the materials they thought, in fact were highly insulting in their message, but the problem there was - the item was exactly as described, they just didn't read the description. However, they also claimed it broke, so I had no other choice but to accept their request and pay for the return postage
And one buyer who did contact me, but their main message was to let me know if they weren't satisfied with the outcome, negative feedback would be left.

The last buyer I mentioned was in actual fact, wonderful. When I responded, in a nutshell I told them a couple of things about how I handle transaction issues, and that feedback doesn't influence that. Their responses to me showed that the original attitude was the end result of too many bad experiences where they have approached sellers and probably not gotten any result - I resolved the problem for them, and we finished the transaction in good spirits.

That leads me to wonder if changing seller attitudes contribute to things like this as well, like a vicious cycle. I know I was feeling pretty defeated by the time I got the message from that last buyer, and as a result my response was worded a little more strongly that it might normally have been (they were very apologetic, though, so I felt immediately guilty... ) I have always believed that there are a lot of sellers who have contributed to the belief negs have so much power. Everywhere you look there are descriptions that reinforce the idea that negs and low star ratings are one of a sellers biggest fears, so it's little wonder to me that buyers believe it has that power. I understand it can feel like a double-edged sword, all of us have had defects from people who just don't understand their impact, and wouldn't have left one if they did know, but I think a lot of the attempts to educate highlight the wrong thing.

The MBG, and the defect system, has inevitably effected change for sellers, too. I believe that the more we fear buyers (or more specifically, their potential actions), the more they'll distance themselves from us and just go straight to the request system, or feedback. And, of course, it's getting harder and harder to try and bridge that gap, so the cycle goes on.

I do blame eBay and, to a lesser extent, PayPal for a lot of this. It serves both of them to undermine their member's credibility so that they look like the greatest service ever for fixing the buyer's problem - eBay and PayPal want buyers to trust them. The MBG banners are on every page, I use adblock and I still can't escape them unless I add them to the list on specific pages. So, everywhere you look, you see eBay telling buyers "we'll help you", with the underlying message 'cos when something goes wrong, your seller probably won't'. In other words, everywhere on the site there are banners telling buyers that tranactions are problematic.

Why not use TRS to show buyers something more like "we have amazing sellers, you probably won't experience a problem, but if you do, we know they'll look after you" *

*and if by some chance they don't, help is available

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

arlottstreetstation — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 04:32:22 GMT

I agree with you that Ebay is responsible for giving us all a bad name & the thing they don't realise is that what they're actually saying to the Public is that "We are a dangerous place to buy" & so Buyers, when they come here, are already on the defensive.

Only yesterday I supplied a VERY large Quote to someone & thankfully I won it, but only after I had to convince his Wife (who openly & jokingly calling herself "The Boss") that I was GENUINE & that they could trust me after they handed over such a large sum of money.

Her exact words were "Please don't take offense but I'm a little weary because Ebay has such a bad name these days" - What could I say??? I asked where she heard that & she told me that that's ALL she hears about these days.

I referred her to my Feedback but she had no confidence in that & I could understand the way she felt as in my own opinion there is NOTHING about Ebay that instils confidence in ME either.

Thankfully in the end she has decided to trust me but now I'm praying that Aust. Post won't loose the damned package or something as that will just be the living end.....

How BL**DY CRAZY has this thing called Ebay become??? When BOTH Buyers & Sellers don't trust it.... Will they EVER wake up to themselves???

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

expanded_perceptions — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:30:14 GMT

@hamsy3 wrote:

I agree with you that Ebay is responsible for giving us all a bad name & the thing they don't realise is that what they're actually saying to the Public is that "We are a dangerous place to buy" & so Buyers, when they come here, are already on the defensive.

Only yesterday I supplied a VERY large Quote to someone & thankfully I won it, but only after I had to convince his Wife (who openly & jokingly calling herself "The Boss") that I was GENUINE & that they could trust me after they handed over such a large sum of money.

Her exact words were "Please don't take offense but I'm a little weary because Ebay has such a bad name these days" - What could I say??? I asked where she heard that & she told me that that's ALL she hears about these days.

I referred her to my Feedback but she had no confidence in that & I could understand the way she felt as in my own opinion there is NOTHING about Ebay that instils confidence in ME either.

Thankfully in the end she has decided to trust me but now I'm praying that Aust. Post won't loose the damned package or something as that will just be the living end.....

How BL**DY CRAZY has this thing called Ebay become??? When BOTH Buyers & Sellers don't trust it.... Will they EVER wake up to themselves???

I agree! I stated on another thread the other day that the general public do not distinguish from sellers or buyers when hearing bad experiences, it just gets lumped together! I had to speak with Australia Post a couple of weeks ago about a parcel, and the customer rep was very understanding when I mentioned I was overly concerned now with eBay transactions, she basically told me that they are getting more and more 'lost' or 'damaged' items. Postal staff, couriers, friends and family etc.. all hear these stories and by the time the story is told a few times, all the message becomes is :eBay is full of scammers and you are likely to have a bad experience".

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

dylan11235813 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:33:38 GMT

All ebay need to do is actively remove dodgy sellers and buyers rather than create automated policies. What I don't think they get is a lot of the big stores that they are promoting are not actually delivering the service that they promise. For some reason ebay think they can throw out the rule book.

I wasn't around when ebay first started but I think they did a "big one" in their own nest. They are loosing market share for a reason, and they do nothing except for creating silly policies that essentialy do nothing, beacause they sit on their hand when they have a big retailer on the doorstep.

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

designers*n*more — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:55:21 GMT

I posted (lodged over the counter) the day after payment, as payment was received at night. Tracking confirms this. Yet because it took AP 6 days to deliver to W.A. buyer leaves a low 1 DSR for delivery, left good feedback, but geeez!

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

mbselections00 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 06:03:56 GMT

Well said digi

I too have always been very lucky with my buyers, even since the MBG came in to play. I've only ever had one case opened against me for INR in Russia, which turned up 2 days later and I had been advsiing buyer of Tracking info all along the way.

Their responses to me showed that the original attitude was the end result of too many bad experiences where they have approached sellers and probably not gotten any result

That leads me to wonder if changing seller attitudes contribute to things like this as well, like a vicious cycle.

I have always believed that there are a lot of sellers who have contributed to the belief negs have so much power.

All so true

Why not use TRS to show buyers something more like "we have amazing sellers, you probably won't experience a problem, but if you do, we know they'll look after you" *

*and if by some chance they don't, help is available

Absolutely brilliant idea, love it and it puts a refreshing, confidence boosting image across to the buyer as opposed to them seeing negative, what should be last resort measures, around an issue as they do at the moment - as you mentioned, everywhere you click these days, even when you go to leave Feedback (as a buyer) there are options like - Return this Item -

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

evil_akuma_2002 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 06:35:47 GMT

"even when you go to leave Feedback (as a buyer) there are options like - Return this Item -"

Interestingly enough, ebay may actually be listening to us!

On my homepage, under 'purchased items', to the right of each item is a big blue button that used to read 'leave feedback', then mysteriously changed to 'return this item'.

However, items purchased since mid-March have returned to 'leave feedback'! So instead of prompting me to return the item, it's prompting me to leave feedback!

Halle*bleepy* lujah! Wonder how long it will last, though?

Re: Have eBay's recent policy changes done more to erode buyer confidence than to address it?

dylan11235813 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 06:49:20 GMT

I think it changes if the seller leaves feedback.

Why bother trying to give great service when I get 4 defects from a customer because it took Australia Post 2 weeks to deliver an order within Queensland. I contacted the buyer about it and said it is out of my control and they didn't even bother replying. I get more and more messages like "I need this by the weekend" also, should I just cancel and tell them to go f off, I have express post if it is that urgent. Basically I worry about the order not arriving in time and then becasue of ebays "policies" I get all the rest of it.

I think ebay are creating spoilt brats. Most customers are wonderfull but there a few that need a bit of schooliing.