topic Re: Dontcha just love paypal? in Selling

Dontcha just love paypal?

curmu-curmu — Wed, 06 May 2015 20:15:59 GMT

Found the below advertisment on my home page this morning. Reading between the lines, I believe that I can just make indiscriminate purchases, until July - and if I don't like what I've thoughtlessly bought, I can get 100% of my outlay back.

Yes, it's only up to 4 items, but multiply 4 by at least 2,000,000 buyers worldwide - that's going to be a lot of claims!

Yes, I know there's also the MBG, but this ad just drives home the fact that buyers need exercise no caution at all with their buying habits! And drives home the point that as sellers, we're all incompetent - or dodgy!

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

lyndal1838 — Wed, 06 May 2015 20:21:55 GMT

Did you read the small print....there is a cap of $45 per refund request.

A lot of the little darlings will be expecting refunds of the full amounts. I predict a flurry of complaints on the boards when reality sinks in.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

harley_babes_hoard — Wed, 06 May 2015 20:39:11 GMT

where have you been Curmu, this was anounced weeks ago. It only until July 2015 and if I'm not mistaken the buyer also had to register for it to be able to claim.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

curmu-curmu — Wed, 06 May 2015 21:12:06 GMT

@harley_babes_hoard wrote:
where have you been Curmu, this was anounced weeks ago. It only until July 2015 and if I'm not mistaken the buyer also had to register for it to be able to claim.

So? Just how many buyers do you think ebay has, worldwide, each month - and how many of them will take advantage of the opportunity to buy at a whim - knowing that they can get 100% back?

Whether one needs to register or not is irrelevant - what I'm angry with, is the blatant promotion of indiscriminate buying!

It's just a potentially harmful exercise, and promotes carelessness in buyers - something we, as sellers, actively try to DIScourage.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

curmu-curmu — Wed, 06 May 2015 21:13:35 GMT

@lyndal1838 wrote:
Did you read the small print....there is a cap of $45 per refund request.
A lot of the little darlings will be expecting refunds of the full amounts. I predict a flurry of complaints on the boards when reality sinks in.

I'm just so glad that I'm not a bulk seller of small-ticket items!

Ebay & paypal seem to be striving to both attract buyers at all costs, and shed itself of the smaller sellers - the ones who drove ebay's marketplace profile!

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

casbit33 — Wed, 06 May 2015 22:19:55 GMT

This allows all buyers to buy and never read the decription, then if it happens to be anything other than what they imagined it would be - money back. Good for buyers, but once again sellers are screwed.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

harley_babes_hoard — Thu, 07 May 2015 00:14:55 GMT

did you actually read all the conditions???

They still have to comply with sellers own return policies. It not as bad as it would seem.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

digital*ghost — Thu, 07 May 2015 01:03:17 GMT

@curmu-curmu wrote:
Whether one needs to register or not is irrelevant - what I'm angry with, is the blatant promotion of indiscriminate buying!

It's just a potentially harmful exercise, and promotes carelessness in buyers - something we, as sellers, actively try to DIScourage.

I agree with you 100%. I look at that ad, then at the number of defects I've received that are associated with "not as big as I thought" type feedback comments (about items for which I provide accurate measurements plus pictures with coins for scale), and just despair. 😞

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

pruetrading — Thu, 07 May 2015 07:30:38 GMT

the refund is only for the return shipping costs, not the purchase

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

amber-eyed-girl — Thu, 07 May 2015 09:58:23 GMT

Curmu-curmu, I have read all the conditions and it won't be a free-for-all...at the worst a gentle flurry 😉

The return shipping, as mentioned in earlier posts, is capped and limited to four returns.

Also, the refunds are issued after a request is sent to PayPal with appropriate proof.

If a buyer is wise, they will limit any claims to items that really matter, or they will just run out of refunds. As a buyer it will not have me rushing to return on a whim.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

digital*ghost — Thu, 07 May 2015 10:13:39 GMT

I think a lot of sellers (myself included) are thinking about the wider repurcussions of the notion of responsibility-free purchase. It might be a short-lived promo from PayPal that's limited in some ways, but it's tapping into something a bit more worrisome - advertising has an effect on things, on attitudes and expectations. If it didn't, companies wouldn't do it, nor spend millions on research to find out how to manipulate consumers into certain beliefs and expectations.

That woman looks really shocked at the size of the bag she received. Why? Probably because she didn't pay attention to the measurements, and campaigns like this contribute to the overall impression that that's ok, when it shouldn't be condoned at all. 😞 (I know a lot of buyers do read descriptions, and take care to make sure what they're buying is suitable, so I'm not referencing those 🙂 ).

One only has to read the EU Distance Selling regulations to get some insight into where the desire for responsibility free shopping gets sellers.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

amber-eyed-girl — Thu, 07 May 2015 10:33:48 GMT

Digi, if something is wrong with a purchase, it's already consumer law that the return is at the cost of the seller. At least where I am. That doesn't cover buyer carelessness, of course, in not understanding what they ordered. Here it is a promotion that goes beyond that to the eye, but I see it as trying to raise confidence that if you don't get what you paid for, you are not left out of pocket.

An encouragement for anyone burned, or who has heard horror stories, to give eBay another go.

A few people I know were stunned I bought here, as they had heard only about the negatives that can happen. This could work positively as well...

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

amber-eyed-girl — Thu, 07 May 2015 10:41:28 GMT

And as Harley has said, it does not override the seller's own return policy. So if a seller has a no return for change of mind, that stands according to the conditions.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

digital*ghost — Thu, 07 May 2015 10:51:39 GMT

@amber-eyed-girl wrote:
Digi, if something is wrong with a purchase, it's already consumer law that the return is at the cost of the seller. At least where I am. That doesn't cover buyer carelessness, of course, in not understanding what they ordered. Here it is a promotion that goes beyond that to the eye, but I see it as trying to raise confidence that if you don't get what you paid for, you are not left out of pocket.

An encouragement for anyone burned, or who has heard horror stories, to give eBay another go.

A few people I know were stunned I bought here, as they had heard only about the negatives that can happen. This could work positively as well...

I see your point, and it makes sense, but that's also the advertising campaign working, in a way, because to be eligible for the return shipping refund, the request has to meet with all of the seller's return policies, which can be in line with standard consumer protections, but are not necessarily the same thing, so by and large this campaign isn't really about INADs, but change of mind - I've read through the T&Cs and don't see any info about what happens if you have to return due to SNAD, it doesn't exclude refunds for return postage in those circumstances, of course, but take my return policy for example, which provides a 7 day window (after receipt) for buyers to return an item - if something is SNAD, their general protections are available and they can open a dispute up to 180 days after purchase, but the buyer won't be eligible for PayPal's return shipping from day 8 onwards.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

amber-eyed-girl — Thu, 07 May 2015 11:00:36 GMT

Digi, I see what you are thinking, that is why my example of a seller policy was no return for change of mind. Sellers who provide a good experience should not be worrying here.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

digital*ghost — Thu, 07 May 2015 11:11:37 GMT

@amber-eyed-girl wrote:
Digi, I see what you are thinking, that is why my example of a seller policy was no return for change of mind. Sellers who provide a good experience should not be worrying here.

The worry is that when people don't have to bear any responsibility for changing their mind (except perhaps for losing the cost of original postage), it invites less responsible purchase decisions, which has more to do with the quality of buyer than the quality of seller and/or experience they provide.

Yes, I accept change of mind returns, but I don't encourage it, and I don't pay for it - I expect the buyer to (pay for it). I see a problem with encouraging it. I see a problem with campaigns that encourage it, and ultimately have the potential for something I don't want to encourage to become a consumer expectation.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

digital*ghost — Thu, 07 May 2015 11:15:00 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
The worry is that when people don't have to bear any responsibility for changing their mind (except perhaps for losing the cost of original postage), it invites less responsible purchase decisions, which has more to do with the quality of buyer than the quality of seller and/or experience they provide.

To illustrate what I mean, I will relate an anecdote that was shared on the boards here a couple of years ago, about an eBay exec (from memory) who was trying to encourage sellers to provide free return shipping for change of mind, and why? Because she thought it was fabulous that she could buy several pairs of the same shoes in different sizes, and just return the ones that didn't fit - at the seller's expense.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

amber-eyed-girl — Thu, 07 May 2015 11:20:23 GMT

Ultimately the buyer chooses where to shop. Many retailers do accept change of mind and pay for returns. The thinking, will not be new.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

digital*ghost — Thu, 07 May 2015 11:31:43 GMT

@amber-eyed-girl wrote:
Ultimately the buyer chooses where to shop. Many retailers do accept change of mind and pay for returns. The thinking, will not be new.

I do realise that, but PayPal are applying it to any seller who accepts change of mind returns, so the seller has less control over the clientele they're prepared to attract, if an independent business decides to provide that service, I wouldn't say anything against them - more power to them and all that. 🙂 But I don't want to attract customers who prefer that option, for quite a number of reasons, and I don't want PayPal offering it on my behalf.

Re: Dontcha just love paypal?

amber-eyed-girl — Thu, 07 May 2015 11:50:01 GMT

Which is why, I suggest, for the duration, any seller adopt a no refunds for change of mind policy if it is of concern.

Thereby negating PayPal offering it on their behalf.