topic Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming in Selling

Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

digital*ghost — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 01:57:28 GMT

I guess this isn't going to be relevant for too much longer, at least within eBay, but my eybrows were raised significantly as I was reading through these points:

Amendments to the PayPal User Agreement (Effective 31 July 2020)

To review the updated PayPal User Agreement, please click here.

We are expanding our Seller Protection Policy to include digital goods, and further clarifying the terms and conditions with respect to the coverage of intangible items under our Seller Protection Policy.

We are clarifying that our Seller Protection Policy does not cover Unauthorised Transactions initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal.

For “Significantly Not as Described” claims under our Seller Protection Policy, sellers may not receive the item back, or may be required to accept the item back and pay for the return shipping costs.

We are adding payments made in respect of gold (in physical form or in exchange-traded form) to the list of ineligible items and transactions under our Seller Protection Policy.

Items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, are not eligible for reimbursement under our Buyer Protection Policy.

To be eligible for our Buyer Protection Policy, buyer must attempt to contact the seller to resolve their issue directly prior to filing a claim with PayPal.

We are also clarifying how in-person QR code transactions will be dealt with under our Buyer Protection Policy and Seller Protection Policy.

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

tazzieterror — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 03:38:20 GMT

I've only made a couple of claims through PayPal in all my time using them so am not well versed in the related policies; which of these changes are significant in your view, digi?

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

twyngwyn — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 03:45:12 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
I guess this isn't going to be relevant for too much longer, at least within eBay, but my eybrows were raised significantly as I was reading through these points:

Amendments to the PayPal User Agreement (Effective 31 July 2020)

To review the updated PayPal User Agreement, please click here.

We are expanding our Seller Protection Policy to include digital goods, and further clarifying the terms and conditions with respect to the coverage of intangible items under our Seller Protection Policy.

We are clarifying that our Seller Protection Policy does not cover Unauthorised Transactions initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal.

For “Significantly Not as Described” claims under our Seller Protection Policy, sellers may not receive the item back, or may be required to accept the item back and pay for the return shipping costs.

We are adding payments made in respect of gold (in physical form or in exchange-traded form) to the list of ineligible items and transactions under our Seller Protection Policy.

Items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, are not eligible for reimbursement under our Buyer Protection Policy.

To be eligible for our Buyer Protection Policy, buyer must attempt to contact the seller to resolve their issue directly prior to filing a claim with PayPal.

We are also clarifying how in-person QR code transactions will be dealt with under our Buyer Protection Policy and Seller Protection Policy.

You won't be covered if you buy, using PayPal, to resell.......I think they're shooting themselves in the foot

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

danieh_6 — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 03:51:33 GMT

I wouldn't say this is all to do with ebay, more so those scams going around "laptop for $20" etc but you get something else forcing you to pay return shipping

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

k1ooo-slr-sales — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 03:52:40 GMT

To be eligible for our Buyer Protection Policy, buyer must attempt to contact the seller to resolve their issue directly prior to filing a claim with PayPal.

This can’t be such a bad thing.

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

tazzieterror — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 04:08:02 GMT

Yes I think so too, but wonder how PayPal can have any idea whether or not an attempt to contact the seller has been made.

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

digital*ghost — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 04:50:58 GMT

@tazzieterror wrote:
Yes I think so too, but wonder how PayPal can have any idea whether or not an attempt to contact the seller has been made.

Precisely - they have always denied emails as acceptable forms of evidence since they can be so easily faked or manipulated, so how are they going to verify a he said / she said situation?

The loss of buyer protection (but not seller protection) on items intended for resale is a huge change, because they could likely make up the majority of their high value transactions, but similar issue - unless the seller is a wholesaler who only provides goods to businesses for resale, how is PayPal going to determine the buyer's intent for the goods?

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

k1ooo-slr-sales — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 05:02:14 GMT

I used to buy cameras on another ID for re-selling on this account.

The only way PayPal would know this was if I used the same PayPal account for both buying and selling. The easy fix would be to have multiple PayPal accounts, one for buying and one for selling.

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

digital*ghost — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 05:35:27 GMT

@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:
I used to buy cameras on another ID for re-selling on this account.

The only way PayPal would know this was if I used the same PayPal account for both buying and selling. The easy fix would be to have multiple PayPal accounts, one for buying and one for selling.

Sure, as long as they have different names, addresses and IP addresses as well - this is all data that PayPal can access for each transaction, and the issue remains - with or without the possibility of being able to bypass detection in order to have acccess to protections PayPal want to withhold, and if they have a legal right to withhold, would mean they have a legal right to suspend all access to your accounts if they decide you're gaming the system - that this is a proposed system that wants to determine someone's intent for making a purchase, and using that to deny protection.

Do modifications affect the protection provided? If I buy something with the intention to fix it and then sell it, is there any protection? If not, does that mean my buyers (purchasing craft supplies to make things to sell) also have no protection? (Rhetorical questions, but there are many that should be asked and answered when such a clause is introduced).

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

k1ooo-slr-sales — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 05:45:01 GMT

in your Opening Post it doesn’t even mention “re-sale on eBay”. So, if something is bought on eBay so it can be sold on FB then it wouldn’t be covered (?)

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

digital*ghost — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 06:07:51 GMT

Who knows. That's kinda the point. The issue is about PayPal determining someone's intention.

What about the hobbyist collector who buys and sells items they collect, purchasing one that's intended for their own collection but they need to raise a claim and PayPal sees they frequently sell such items - will they be required to prove in some way that they never intended it for resale, and denied protection if because they can't.

I have.... questions.

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

digital*ghost — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 06:24:20 GMT

For further thought, let's say PayPal decide this by the seller's intention instead - would that mean terms like "wholesale" on a product listing or website determines eligibility for buyer protection?

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

countessalmirena — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 08:41:22 GMT

I suspect that one way in which PayPal may determine that items are being purchased for reselling is in the case of repeat purchases of multiples of items. Perhaps the collector of identical widgets would have to prove he/she is indeed a collector and that these widgets are on display with little labels next to the glass.

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

digital*ghost — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 08:58:19 GMT

@countessalmirena wrote:
I suspect that one way in which PayPal may determine that items are being purchased for reselling is in the case of repeat purchases of multiples of items.

I guess I better stop doing my grocery shopping online, then. Or at least, my cherry ripe purchases will have to become clandestine

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

countessalmirena — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 09:13:27 GMT

Pssst! The code word is cherry ripe!

There cherries grow that none may buy,

Till “Cherry-ripe” themselves do cry.

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

glenbankloel — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 22:16:55 GMT

Really, tell me how would they know what our intention is with an item purchased, how are they going to determine what you might want the item for, and why is it any of their business anyway? Refunds should be available to all.

Their ONLY role is to facilitate the flow of money from one transaction to another, not to stick their noses into what happens after.

Not the "Reselling Police"

What if you gave that item to someone else, and they sold it, do they intend to Police that too?

It is not up to them to determine how the item is going to be used/sold/given away/thrown out/split up.

Over stepping their authority I think, in a big way.

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

digital*ghost — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 00:22:27 GMT

I think it's a strange decision, why would they deny protection to the type of purchases that ensure sellers keep money in their PayPal account and use it to pay for stock, which ultimately encourages the constant back and forth flow of money within PayPal (which they profit from), rather than encourage people to withdraw it and use alternatives? They would know these types of payments can't be subject to chargebacks, so the risk of that kind of issue and cost is minimised and leaves PayPal as the only source of protection if something goes wrong, except now those payments won't be protected at all.

Dodgy as, IMO.

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

11dustyattic — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 11:22:17 GMT

For sellers, we're damned if we do, damned if we don't, regardless of what their policies say. Both Ebay and paypal ignore their own policies anyway

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

twyngwyn — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 02:54:45 GMT

I use my Paypal account mainly for my prepaid envelopes & satchels....so if they were to go 'missing', I would be stuffed!

Might have to consider constantly emptying PayPal and using the attached account (so that I may be able to do a chargeback)

Re: Big Changes to PayPal Protections Incoming

dontmissthese — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 05:26:36 GMT

We are clarifying that our Seller Protection Policy does not cover Unauthorised Transactions initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal.

Huh!! So what is an environment not hosted by PayPal ?