topic Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud? in Selling

What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

mark130471 — Tue, 01 Sep 2020 21:47:07 GMT

Hi, long time user of eBay here.

In over 350 transactions I have only one fraudulant transaction.
I purchased a second hand guitar for over $1500 and made the mistake of paying direct into the sellers bank account after a lot of sob stories. Just a note, some people in our community are exceptionally good liars.

When I realised I'd been done I contacted eBay, my bank, their bank and the local Police in Vicotoria.
A year later, I still have not recieved a refund.

I have noticed time amd time again the same sort of listing on eBay.com.au coming out of Victoria, WA and SA
A seller with no previous sales list a very expensive musical item for 1.00
They advise that you can pickup, the also do not accept PayPal

A quick search on Google with show the original listing on Gumtree in the UK.
I'm seeing these listings everyweek.

Be warned folks but also - eBay what are you doing to stop this behaviour?
Could it be that if you sign up to ebay you need soome form of secuerw ID?

A credit card? Drivers license?

Thoughts please good people.

Cheers

Mark

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

lyndal1838 — Tue, 01 Sep 2020 22:00:37 GMT

Ebay has given buyers the tools to protect themselves from fraud but you chose not to use the main one....you did not pay with paypal!!

If you paid with paypal you could then have used the other tools to get your money back....open a dispute in ebay or paypal for a refund.

The very fact that the seller did not accept paypal should have given you a clue that the listing was not entirely above board.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

shoppingbag* — Tue, 01 Sep 2020 22:11:49 GMT

The biggest con artists are the biggest and most convincing liars. Trust no-one, learn by your mistake and move on.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

mark130471 — Tue, 01 Sep 2020 22:12:18 GMT

Thanks for the reply. Yes I do realise all this and I'm sure I explained that.

We have all sorts in our community.

Perhaps screening people during the account creation process might be a good idea?

As I said, I've noticed the same type of advert every week.

I'm not the only one getting ripped off.

We are all generally aware of utilising PayPal, sometimes however, semi believable stories can be convincing.

So, I ask the question - what is eBay doing to identity check when creating accounts on eBay?

And si there room for improvement?

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

mark130471 — Tue, 01 Sep 2020 22:15:02 GMT

Correct.

However, how many people need to be unnecessarily ripped off and then have to "learn by your mistake and move on" ?
Simple indentity checks during account creation might help stop the regular flow of poeple being ripped off and then having to learn from their negative experiances.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

repentatleisure1952 — Tue, 01 Sep 2020 22:21:05 GMT

@mark130471 wrote:
Correct.

However, how many people need to be unnecessarily ripped off and then have to "learn by your mistake and move on" ?
Simple indentity checks during account creation might help stop the regular flow of poeple being ripped off and then having to learn from their negative experiances.

There are sausage factories world wide dedicated to scamming & producing false identity documents.

If buyers choose not to use safe payment methods then that is on them.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

mark130471 — Tue, 01 Sep 2020 22:51:56 GMT

True, although identity checks (albeit capable of being forged) is just a very easy step to reduce some of the fraudulent activity.

One extra step in the process might just reduce an un-proportional amount of fraud.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

maranock — Wed, 02 Sep 2020 00:19:44 GMT

Identity checks can be faked, and if Ebay was required to check sellers identities people would still be scammed by all the otehr places where people can sell without ID checks - newspapers, Gumtree, Facebook, private websites, where does it stop.

One of the problems of putting too many protections in place is that people get sloppy in taking their own precautions as buyers and the problem actually gets worse as a whole. making mistakes and learning from them can be painful but it is a good thing. There are plenty of ways for sellers to protect themselves and if they choose not to l;ook into them, they are going to learn more of these lessons.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

mark130471 — Wed, 02 Sep 2020 20:23:06 GMT

Just in case anyone is interested, this is an example (have reported to eBay but the auctions continue);

This is a current auction on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gibson-J45-TV-True-Vintage/193645119878

This is the real guitar:
https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/gibson-j45-tv-true-vintage-/1382202784

This is anther auciton from the same person that is fake:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MESA-BOOGlE-Mark-5-90-45-10w-3Ch-Valve-Guitar-Amplifier-Head-Footswitch/193645125483

This is the real item:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-guitar-accessories/mesa-boogie-mkv-mk5-mark-5-90-45-10w-3ch-valve-guitar-amplifier-head-footswitch-only-cab-sold-/1382840719

Oh here's another one...
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GlBSON-CHET-ATKlNS-SST-ACOUSTlC-ELECTRlC-GUlTAR/154070384978

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

maranock — Wed, 02 Sep 2020 21:55:06 GMT

People have been complaining about these types of listings for a long time but Ebay can't remove listings on the sayso of random people - how are they to know if the item is real or not. This is why buyers need to do their due dilligence.

This item can be picked up so a buyer can check for themselves before taking it away, and pay on pick up. If the seller insists on bank deposit payment before the customer comes to pick up then that is a red flag and buyers know to stay away. Any seller that insists on bank deposit is yelling scam so it is easy to not be taken in.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

shoppingbag* — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 00:00:24 GMT

We all went through the checks when signing up for eBay and Paypal . I just don't remember being asked "are you a con artist" and if I were asked and I was, I would be unlikely to admit it.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

*tippy*toes* — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 23:51:16 GMT

@mark130471 wrote:
Just in case anyone is interested, this is an example (have reported to eBay but the auctions continue);

This is a current auction on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gibson-J45-TV-True-Vintage/193645119878

This is the real guitar:
https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/gibson-j45-tv-true-vintage-/1382202784

This is anther auciton from the same person that is fake:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MESA-BOOGlE-Mark-5-90-45-10w-3Ch-Valve-Guitar-Amplifier-Head-Footswitch/193645125483

This is the real item:
https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-guitar-accessories/mesa-boogie-mkv-mk5-mark-5-90-45-10w-3ch-valve-guitar-amplifier-head-footswitch-only-cab-sold-/1382840719

Oh here's another one...
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GlBSON-CHET-ATKlNS-SST-ACOUSTlC-ELECTRlC-GUlTAR/154070384978

Looks like the eBay listings have been removed.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

sugar249 — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 03:42:20 GMT

@mark130471 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. Yes I do realise all this and I'm sure I explained that.

We have all sorts in our community.
Perhaps screening people during the account creation process might be a good idea?

As I said, I've noticed the same type of advert every week.
I'm not the only one getting ripped off.

We are all generally aware of utilising PayPal, sometimes however, semi believable stories can be convincing.

So, I ask the question - what is eBay doing to identity check when creating accounts on eBay?
And si there room for improvement?

I constantly get telephone calls from people wanting my bank account details for many and various things. Do I give it, NO.

Should my telephone company qualify these people to ensure they arent scammers before they let the call come through. No

Scammers are scammers, whatever checks are put in place, they will work their way around them

There is a thing called personal responsibilty, if it smells like a rat, looks like a rat, it is a rat.

Ebay tell you pay by a secure means (ie Paypal), and if you dont get your item, they (Paypal) will cover it. So why wouldnt you use it.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

digital*ghost — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 06:34:31 GMT

Sooner or later, the vast majority of sellers will be required to supply ID verification through the eBay managed payments system. Pity the same will probably never be true of buyers, tho - JMHO.

If you want to buy from a seller who has verified their ID to eBay and the payment processor (Adyen), just look for any seller who has GPay as one of the payment options, as this is the quickest way to know for sure which sellers have been switched over to this payment system.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

lyndal1838 — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:44:07 GMT

As a buyer I have had to verify my identity to paypal to continue buying.

I would say that is as good as an ebay ID process.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

countessalmirena — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 12:31:54 GMT

Mark, welcome to the boards.

(I'm sorry about your unresolved situation. It's probably too late now to lodge a complaint with ReportCyber (previously ACORN), but I'll give you the link to a previous post of mine in which I talk about that option, including a link to making a report.)

eBay talk the talk about fraud prevention; however, it is generally acknowledged that much of the vaunted fraud prevention is based upon users reporting suspicious instances, sellers, or buyers.

Even then, reports of listings and users that have red lights flashing and a voice shouting Warning! Warning! and seem to be readily perceived as fraudulent by human eyes may not be perceived or picked up by eBay's largely bot-driven systems.

So... your question "eBay what are you doing to stop this behaviour?" would be answered by eBay with their window dressing spiel (Keeping our members safe is a top priority for us, so we have zero tolerance for fraud on eBay. If you spot something suspicious, let us know.). By the average eBay user posting on these boards, you'd be getting different answers... as you can tell from what has already been posted in this thread.

eBay have been known to ask for members to verify their identity. PayPal require ID. As digital*ghost has mentioned, eBay's Managed Payments (through Ayden) certainly requires that the seller prove their identity - to the point that some sellers have had a lot of trouble in doing so for completely legitimate reasons.

The flip side of that is that there are those who are chary about providing a lot of forms of identification online, based on their (I must admit, very understandable) concern that such documents (scanned) or document numbers could be obtained by actors with nefarious intent, where the upshot is that their ID is up for sale on the dark web. Data breaches are unfortunately not so uncommon as to make this an illegitimate fear.

Nevertheless, identification of people selling and buying does seem to be an inescapable necessity.

We should bear in mind that it's patently obvious that criminals have convincing fake ID to hand as required - or stolen ID from people who probably don't know that their identity has been stolen.

eBay does offer protection for buyers, however. When you read through eBay's Money Back Guarantee policy page , you'll note in what circumstances the MBG applies. Payment method is pivotal. Paying by bank deposit/bank transfer is not covered, as you've already discovered. (Banks also warn you, when you make an online bank transfer, that if you make a mistake in the account number you may not be able to recover the money. That indicates that getting back the money if the seller hotfoots it with your money and never sends the item would be equally difficult/impossible to remedy.)

Paying by PayPal also offers additional protection. If, for instance, you fail to follow through with an eBay claim under its MBG (or try to open an eBay claim past the dispute time stated in the MBG policy page), you can still open a PayPal dispute. The timeframe is considerably longer.

In conclusion, eBay has many gaps in its fraud prevention. That's true. However, eBay provide buyers with considerable power to protect themselves in the event of a problem, as long as the buyer uses one of the payment methods listed in the MBG, acts within the timeframe, and follows through with the dispute (i.e., not closing it before there is a resolution, and escalating it within the required timeframe if the seller doesn't resolve the issue, and acting as required if there is an instruction within the dispute).

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

digital*ghost — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 13:13:35 GMT

@lyndal1838 wrote:
As a buyer I have had to verify my identity to paypal to continue buying.
I would say that is as good as an ebay ID process.

But people don't have to in order to use it. You can buy / pay on ebay without an account for either ebay or PayPal, so not establishing anything identity-wise (and sellers are no longer able to block purchases from such buyers).

You can't quite do the same for selling on eBay, even without MP.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

springyzone — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 01:33:44 GMT

@mark130471 wrote:
Hi, long time user of eBay here.
In over 350 transactions I have only one fraudulant transaction.
I purchased a second hand guitar for over $1500 and made the mistake of paying direct into the sellers bank account after a lot of sob stories. Just a note, some people in our community are exceptionally good liars.

When I realised I'd been done I contacted eBay, my bank, their bank and the local Police in Vicotoria.
A year later, I still have not recieved a refund.

I have noticed time amd time again the same sort of listing on eBay.com.au coming out of Victoria, WA and SA
A seller with no previous sales list a very expensive musical item for 1.00
They advise that you can pickup, the also do not accept PayPal

A quick search on Google with show the original listing on Gumtree in the UK.
I'm seeing these listings everyweek.

Be warned folks but also - eBay what are you doing to stop this behaviour?
Could it be that if you sign up to ebay you need soome form of secuerw ID?
A credit card? Drivers license?

Thoughts please good people.

Cheers

Mark

That's a lot of money to lose.

You are completely right, some sellers can do a good sob story and it is entirely possible to get caught out and pay into a bank account if someone's paypal is 'down' or whatever.

My only advice would be not to get caught out again.

Having said that, not everyone who wants bank deposit or cash is a scammer. My sister a while back sold a holiday time share, it was for a few thousand dollars and she dealt with the buyer personally and it was all by bank transactions as the buyer paid it off over 3 or 4 months. My sister didn't want to be up for paypal fees and the buyer had bought but couldn't afford to pay for it there and then.

It worked out for them but paying into a bank account is taking a little bit of a risk. I have done it before (with small items) and it has been fine, but you need to weigh up the risk and just say no if a large amount of money is involved. To make life easier, these days I just won't buy except with paypal.

The question of scam ads is a big one but probably hard for ebay to police unless people report the ads. I suspect so much is automated with ebay and it is hard for their computers to pick up the scams from the genuine. I have seen quite a lot of suspicious ads from zero feedback sellers, different state or suburb each time but identical ad for 'brand new' kitchen item at eg $600, when new price is $2500.

Unless the item is pick up, scam for sure.

If the ad says pick up available, then don't settle for anything else or pay in advance.

Re: What is ebay doing to stop fraud?

mark130471 — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 01:55:43 GMT

Thanks for the reply.

I admit I got burnt and hopefully that won't happen to me again. Unlike a lot of the commentators here its in my nature to try and help others not to get burnt when I can see fraudulent behavior happening.

If they can setup fake accounts and list items, can I... set up fake accounts and bid?

I think I might have a look into that 🙂