topic Re: Advice - Australia Post in Selling

Advice - Australia Post

oddsandendsoz — Tue, 03 May 2022 04:26:34 GMT

Hi all,

I hope sales are going well for you all.

In October last year I had 4 parcels all go missing after handing them over to my local Australia Post office. The parcels never received another scan after 'received by Australia Post'. Fortunately I insure all my parcels and so despite a lengthy wait process due to AP's "'expected delivery times' being extended significantly due to COVID backlogs AP did pay out the insurance which on the 4 items was over $4000. I guess I expected that AP would investigate this internally to see how 4 parcels came to be lost, who knows if they ever did. Fast forward to last Wednesday 27th April and I lodged 4 parcels again, two for one eBay account and two for another eBay account. Tracking is now showing 2 parcels have moved in the system and 2 parcels have again as above and in October "received by Australia Post' but have not moved. Both the two parcels that have not moved are the same account that the previous 4 items 'disappeared' on. I sell alcohol and (yes I have a valid liquor licence) on this main account and I also sell my pwn personal items on my other account like used books etc. I am starting to feel that someone is targeting my business and is stealing my items. I stopped going to the previous AP LPO as I was not sure if it was the PO staff or the drivers that may have 'mislaid'my 4 parcels in October, but as I say last week another 2 (both alcohol) have again been 'mislaid'whilst the other two items lodged the same day (no alcohol) are moving. It would be easy for someone to shake the parcels to listen to see if they contain alcohol or not as despite packing really well you cannot hide liquid noises. I spoke to AP yesterday on the phone and outlined my concerns. I guess I want AP to fully investigate this as I believe there is someone stealing my parcels. The fact that I lodged 4 parcels and 2 are moving and the 2 that happen to be alcohol are not moving shows more than coincidence, especially given the 4 parcels lodged in October. I am wondering what expectations I should have on AP to investigate this? I outlined that if these do indeed go 'missing'then I would probably stop using AP because it does feel that I am dealing with a driver who knows my items and is stealing them. Given that AP admitted to me that they have cameras in their PO's and that 2 parcels moved and 2 did not, then it should in theory be easy for them to know which driver took the 2 parcels that moved which I believe were all placed in the same red tubs they use to place the parcels when lodged.

I guess I am looking for any helpful advice?

Re: Advice - Australia Post

papermoon.lady — Tue, 03 May 2022 04:44:42 GMT

If AusPost does not help with the investigation, you could contact the ombudsman.

Anyway, I remember a buyer a few months ago who posted here that he had bought alcohol and received an empty box... He seemed to be a reasonable, honest person, as he had contacted AusPost and had not opened a case and had also been polite in his interaction with the seller. Or maybe it is the seller who posted, I don't remember.

It does seem to be a bit strange...

Re: Advice - Australia Post

oddsandendsoz — Tue, 03 May 2022 05:10:51 GMT

Hi papermoon.lady,

That was me LOL as the seller. Since then I have started to take images of all my parcels at the PO on the scales showing the weight of the parcel with a clear view of the shipping label. I did that last week too as I now always do with the four parcels lodged on Wednesday.

I guess I am really angry and frustrated with AP, but also angry at the culprit who I assume is a driver. If the same AP employee has now stolen 6 items from me, I feel it is important that they are brought to justice and as a minimum sacked for theft. The two parcels I lodged last week that have not moved since handing over the the LPO have a value of $1700. I had a sleepless night Sunday due to this because I could not help feeling i am being 'targeted'by someone who knows my business and the items I sell. I guess I am looking for any input on previous experiences other sellers may have had in this regard, but also some advice on what I should be expecting from AP and if my expectations are unrealistic? Thanks for your input!

Re: Advice - Australia Post

davewil1964 — Tue, 03 May 2022 08:05:03 GMT

TL:DR

Save the paragraph

Re: Advice - Australia Post

jellybirddesigns — Tue, 03 May 2022 09:14:51 GMT

Get yourself some of the cheapest Air Tags and pop one in each parcel.

Or perhaps lodge with a different PO.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

oddsandendsoz — Tue, 03 May 2022 09:56:03 GMT

Thanks Jellybird for your input. I have already changed my PO hence the concerns. I was going to my nearest PO but given I was unsure if the problem is with the PO staff or the drivers, I started going to another PO. However, they are pretty close and I am assuming that the same drivers service the area. This is why I am now really concerned because I have done a lot of work and made many changes to try to mitigate losses.

I also believe that given this has now happened at two separate PO's that it gives more weight to the idea that it is a driver to blame. As I say, all 6 parcels (4 in October and 2 last Wednesday) have now gone 'missing' after lodging at the PO, none have ever received any more scans in the system, even though the other two lodged last week along with the 'missing' two are moving through the system.

I may have to invest in the trackers for expensive items but a lot of my items are around the $200 mark so not really feasible for all of my items.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

oddsandendsoz — Tue, 03 May 2022 10:24:03 GMT

I should clarify the reason I feel it must be a driver to blame. All 6 'lost' parcels were lodged at the PO with the receipt of lodgement given to me at the time. None were ever scanned again and as I understand it the PO's have security cameras. So I am assuming that the drivers are either not scanning the parcels as they put them in their van, or are missing scanning some parcels as they load their van. This is the only logical explanation I can see.

When the 4 parcels were lost in October the AP rep on the phone advised that they could not see any 'critical incidents' on their system that would indicate say a van being hijacked or a van setting on fire and all parcels being lost/damaged. I send all my parcels signature on delivery, fully insured and now take images of the parcel on the scales at the PO when lodging and have been going to a new PO since January. I also take images during packing on most items and I pack all items extremely well and receive glowing feedback from my customers. I don't know what else to do to avoid these issues. Speaking with AP yesterday all they could say was 'parcels sometimes do get lost', but 4 out of 4 parcels lodged in October and 2/4 lodged last Wednesday sounds like a huge coincidence to me.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

eol-products — Tue, 03 May 2022 10:44:07 GMT

The drivers don't scan the parcels where I am. The first scan is not till it goes through a larger facility. The vans from the post office don't drive to Sydney so they go through a local facility to be loaded into crates before going onto trucks then off to Sydney to be sorted at Chullora where the next scan is taken after the post office. By that time they have been handled a few times and depending on where you are I would guess it would be similar.

Sending liquids can be risky if dropped and is it possible they may have been damaged and leaked out.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

oddsandendsoz — Tue, 03 May 2022 11:03:25 GMT

Thanks for your input mate, I appreciate all the advise and input I can get. I only say this because when I have been at the PO sometimes I have seen drivers collecting parcels and have seen them scanning them. But you may be right, it still seems more likely that it would be the drivers then given that they disappear between the PO and the sorting centres.

On the liquid leaking, AP have a policy that highlights these things and this is documented if this happens. Also it is very rare for my items and in sending approximately 3000 bottles I have NEVER had a smashed bottle because I pack ridiculously well and use very strong double walled boxes. However, I have received smashed bottles to me. As I say at around 3000 bottles sent not one customer has ever said that their bottle leaked or smashed so it is very rare for my business at least so I don't believe 4/4 or even 2/4 could occur because all my bottles are sent with copious amounts of bubble wrap, double walled boxes and either packing peanuts and more cardboard protection. I honestly believe I could drop one of my parcels from a 2 story building and it would survive.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

oddsandendsoz — Tue, 03 May 2022 12:33:04 GMT

I suppose my main questions I am hoping to get some advice/input about are;

1) What can I realistically expect from AP regarding this? Can I 'demand' that a proper investigation is done in to this? Are they obligated in any way to investigate this fully? Is there a process that they are obligated to follow or can they just as I stated to the AP rep yesterday "just hide behind the line that 'some parcels just do get lost'"?

2) Does anyone have any experience in getting AP to look in to these matters? I know they have what they call the 'Revenue Protection' team, but I believe this is for investigating parcel recipients and such who make false claims, or at least repeated claims. Or I suppose senders who do the same.

Apologies if I am coming across stressed, it is actually causing me quite a bit of stress because I am reluctant to keep sending parcels using AP whilst I am unsure what is happening and without some assurances from AP that they are looking into this.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

papermoon.lady — Tue, 03 May 2022 19:17:16 GMT

I cannot tell you for sure if you can enforce an investigation. Maybe you can ask the postal ombudsman. As AusPost compensated you, I don't know if the ombudsman can help in any other way but provide you with some info concerning your rights for an answer and an investigation, but they should definitely be able to tell you if AusPost has to start an investigation as requested by you.

I have also heard of people who went to the police when something expensive mysteriously disappeared from the PO or even while on board for delivery (I think they had not been compensated yet though).

I think you are right, 6 parcels going missing is definitely not normal. And you want more than compensation of course. You need peace of mind when you send a box with alcohol, and you want the problem of the disappearing parcels solved.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

oddsandendsoz — Tue, 03 May 2022 20:54:18 GMT

Thank you Papermoon!!

I agree, 6 parcels to me says there is an issue. I have been sending parcels with AP for around 8 years now and in all that time I believe I have had maybe 3 or 4 go missing, not even one per year. I also had to go overseas for 6 weeks in January and sales have been down the last 6 or so months so 6 out of less parcels is a very high percentage rate of losses compared to previous years.

Thanks for the suggestion of the Ombudsman, I will follow that up. I was wondering like you if the Police would be able to do anything. I feel very strongly that this should be looked into because to me at least there is a very worrying pattern here that is statistically well above what should be expected on lost parcel rates. I also feel that AP should take responsibility investigating this as we have all seen (albeit not often thankfully) stories about Postal workers or couriers being found with $1000's of parcels and goods in their homes. I am trying to protect myself and my business here, but also others because I doubt I am the only one suffering at this person or persons hands.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

p9games — Wed, 04 May 2022 04:22:34 GMT

I had a $2,500 parcel 'lost' in the AP system. It was not insured so I received a compensation of $100 and sent along on my merry way. Like you, I truly can not comprehend how a parcel can be 'lost'. I'm not physicist but I'm pretty sure matter does not spontaneously vanish into a parallel universe. My guess would be theft by an AP employee or it was damaged and thrown away. This was an inbound parcel so I didnt pack it, I guess it could have been poorly packed and the contents are strewn across the back of some driver's truck.

You would think that AP keep track of how many claims, losses and so on are filed and match those to drivers. I mean if Driver X has lost numerous items worth a lot of money, and caused AP to pay out insurance claims, you would think they'd sort that out. I have a neighbour who is a driver for AP and previously worked in the sorting depot, she said security is pretty tight to avoid mail fraud and theft, but who knows?

**bleep**py situation to be in

Re: Advice - Australia Post

eol-products — Wed, 04 May 2022 04:39:50 GMT

Sorting machines tend to eat a few and labels are known to come off as well. Couriers can be worse and I have come across items that had invoices in them from 9 years earlier. Not sure how a pallet got lost for that long but it happens. Another common one is to be sent to the wrong country and then be abandoned there,

I once thought I lost a large box being sent to me via airmail turn up months latter having ended up in sea mail even though it showed airmail with the correct postage paid.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

oddsandendsoz — Wed, 04 May 2022 05:20:08 GMT

Thank you! Yes, it is very disturbing and I am sorry you also had a bad experience. I fully agree with your assertion that material things do not just 'disappear' and stated as much to the AP rep on Monday. It is too easy a cop out for AP to claim this and deflects responsibility on them to both look into it and take disciplinary action. Even if something is damaged as I say in theory and in AP's own communication to me, it should be noted on their system and images taken of the damage before destroying. However, I have received broken bottles where the outer box is obviously wet and damaged and I have picked them up from the PO. So I guess if they are not destroyed, they 'should' still be handed over.

Exactly, it should be noted how many parcels have 'gone missing' from each driver. The reason I believe that it must be a driver is that I cannot see any other way that a parcel is 'lost' because as AP quote (and as your neighbor confirms) each PO has cameras and once it arrives at a depot, they also have numerous cameras. I am going to keep pushing this because I hate injustice. The worst for me is that some of my items are very rare and cannot be replaced, to think that someone has them and is either drinking them with coke, or selling them for $200 when they are worth much more actually hurts. Another thing that is annoying is that one of the items was sold on a rival site to eBay and it is a fairly new account and I had only listed a handful of items there, since October I have had around 8 sales and now 2 of those have disappeared due to AP which may mean suspension of that account.

Thanks again for your input.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

oddsandendsoz — Wed, 04 May 2022 05:25:09 GMT

Thanks for your input again mate, I appreciate all of it.

It is very unlikely that my labels come off as I tape all the label with sticky tape, and so far I don't believe this has ever happened to me. Certainly I would find it hard to believe that of the 6 'missing' parcels more than 1 could have been due to a label issue. I also only ship within Australia so thankfully I avoid a lot of issues others have selling Internationally.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

eol-products — Wed, 04 May 2022 06:13:40 GMT

I once sent an item to QLD and took over a month due to ending up on a plane to Canada.

If I sent something of value I will write my address under the label for good measure.

Are you items leaving a major city or a smaller regional area.

Re: Advice - Australia Post

oddsandendsoz — Wed, 04 May 2022 07:16:01 GMT

Good suggestion on writing my return address under the label just in case, especially for the high value items.

My items are all sent from what would be known as Sydney Metro, and from memory all 6 of the lost parcels were going to Metropolitan areas, with perhaps one or two going rural. The two last week were both only going within NSW and one only around 20km and the other 180km?

Re: Advice - Australia Post

etb321 — Wed, 04 May 2022 15:41:07 GMT

Last week a WA customer said an expensive item hadn't arrived. The tracking only showed lodgment at my PO then nothing. Time was slipping by. Turns out they're still not doing signature on delivery due to Covid.

Try sending without Signature on delivery, eg just regular tracking so the packages can be safe dropped.

I wouldn't be quick to suggest theft to explain undelivered parcels. My thinking would be the missing packages are sitting in a non urgent return to sender bin.

Tom

Re: Advice - Australia Post

papermoon.lady — Wed, 04 May 2022 17:47:15 GMT

Wouldn't the tracking show that they were unable to deliver if the buyer is not home and the parcel requires a signature? They usually just sign for the buyer (after confirming their name), but the buyer must be home.