topic Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help? in Selling

A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

aquacor — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:03:09 GMT

One buyer ordered an aquarium filter from me and paid total $127.75 via PayPal. I check everything inside the box to make sure no any parts missing before I post out. However, this buyer still complains there is "two valves missing".

Base on my previous bad experiences, I know if I satisfy this buyer, then, he may tell me "I also found there is no filter media inside the box" etc. Therefore, I choice end of dealing with him to asking "return for a refund". Because some of those kind of bad buyers will not go on by keep item till PayPal dispute ends at seller's favour.

However, this buyer is "clever", he return a half sized box by COD (I need pay the postage and service fee). It is very clear, the original plastic made filter can't fit into small size box, and buyer needs pay the return postage under PayPal policy. So, I reject this parcel and Australia Post returned it back to sender in original.

But PayPay's decision is "After careful consideration of the evidence provided in the case detailed
below, we have completed our investigation and decided in favour of the
buyer. Under terms of our User Agreement, we have debited the following
amount from your PayPal account as a refund to the buyer: $127.75 AUD".

Of course, as a seller, I want to appeal this case. However, the appeal page showed 3 options, none of them are suit for this case:

The outcome of this claim was determined using the methods specified in the PayPal User Agreement. If you wish to appeal this decision, please complete one of the following options within 15 days of case closure:

1. I can provide tracking information.

2. The buyer has already been refunded and I can provide proof of the previous refund.

3. The item was returned but not in the same condition as when it was sent (item was returned not in original condition).

Thank you for your cooperation. PayPal will evaluate any appeals but does not guarantee a reversal of the decision.

As a seller, how to appreal this case? Because I didn't receive the returned parcel.

Any one can help? Thank you very much.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

*sparklz* — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:12:02 GMT

Call paypal and ask to speak to a supervisor.

COD is NOT an acceptable postage for return of an item as I found out when a seller asked me to return COD and when I called paypal they said that is not good enough for return postage to get a refund so I had to pay for postage with tracking so fight your case and if they do not return your payment tell them you will take it up with the financial ombudsman.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

amber-eyed-girl — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:15:44 GMT

You didn't receive it, and you did not accept it, are different things.

the buyer has to Paypal, fulfilled their obligation by proving they sent you a parcel...so far.

But the buyer has to pay return shipping.

did you try to talk to Paypal about the reason you refused it?

did you take any photos of the parcel, to show you were not sent what you posted to the buyer?

Call Paypal and explain it in detail. If the person you get is not helpful ask to speak to a supervisor.

edit: tell them what sparklz just said

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

e_traders_aus — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 05:56:24 GMT

Typical paypal and their 'careful consideration' seems they base their decisions on a flip of a two headed coin,, heads the case is decided in buyers favour, tales for the seller.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

harley_babes_hoard — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 06:23:31 GMT

I believe that are a lot more tying it on to see if they can get goods for free. About 4-5 weeks ago I had 4 in 2 weeks try to tell me the items were broken. Mind you most were small cloth patches how they are broken is anyones guess the other was a pair of leather gloves. I told each of them no problems at all send them back for a full refund including return postage. The buyer with the gloves even took a photo of the so called problem. (which didn't show me any damage at all). So far I have not received any of the items back.

I do believe if sellers keep giving into these type of buyers/scammers by just refunding on a whim, the problem is going to get a lot worse.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

aquacor — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 08:46:58 GMT

Thanks for your help to tell me "The financial ombudsman". However, I still want the case can be solved by PayPal decision maker.

As an eBay seller, I hope eBay can review their "on buyer's side policies". Or at least give eBay seller a rights to pre-block those kind of buyers to create a fair trading place.

Some of those buyers normally do same things to other sellers, and you can found some of bad buyers always left negative feedbacks to eBay sellers, but their feedback score is 100%.

Who knows when they will visit your shop?

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

aquacor — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 08:52:09 GMT

Thanks for your help. I reject the COD parcel for two reasons:

1. I do not accept COD parcel.

2. The box is much small than original filter box, it is impossible to fit a plastic body filter into small size box.

Anyway, I will try to talk to PayPal staff and update the case in here.

eBay sellers should exchange their experience for doing business on eBay.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

amber-eyed-girl — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 08:56:23 GMT

Good luck. yes, let us know how it goes.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

aquacor — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 08:57:22 GMT

For Australia PayPal team, there are only 6 or 7 staffs. And those staffs look after all Australia paypal transaction dispute cases. In real, the dispute process is a programed software.

The software can't solve "clever" people's cheatings. I hope the PayPal staff can help me.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

aquacor — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 09:10:09 GMT

I run eBay store for more than 10 years. Say 5 years ago. I have everage 30 new orders every day, but there is only 1 or 2 trouble buyers per month. And ebay do compansation to me to cover my loss by give me credit to my ebay account.

But after that eBay cancelled this kind of compansation. And number of people try to get more than they paid is increase day by day. Now, sales down to 10 per day, but at least 1 of them want more than they paid.

????

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

phorum_junkie* — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 15:28:53 GMT

one option woulld have been to ask the PO to keep the parcel for a couple of days and thenn come back and rung Paypal, if the first person you spoke to did not give you a satisfactory response you should have asked to soeak to a suervisor and have made it ver clear to them that the parcel had been returned COD so you had to pay for the return postage cost and that it could not be the origina item anyway as the parcel was far too small. You should have taken a note of the time of the call and the name and employee number of each person you spoke to. You can ask to be bumped higher uo the ladder and sometmes this works, if it doesn't you calmly tell them that they have 24 hours to advise you that accepting or rejecting the parcel will not result in Paypal refunding the buyer if the parcel does not contain the original item or you will be taking a case to the FOS.

You could also have just told Paypal that you had not received the parcel and stick to that answer as there would be no tracking info if it was return to sender or COD.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

aquacor — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:39:12 GMT

Thanks for all your help.

I rang PayPal today to asking why the case closed at buyer's favor. The staff told me that because of the tracking number shows parcel returned to sender.

I explain say: first, it is COD parcel that against PayPal return for refund policy. Sencond, the parcel is much small than original size, the filter can't fit into this box.

He checked PayPal system say: Yes, the system shows the parcel is cash on delivery parcel (COD parcel), this is not allowed, and I will appear this case for you.

Now, the case is re-open till 5/8/14.

Hopefully, I will receive the original item this time.

In the passed years, I did lost few appear cases, because buyers did return item back to me, but the returned item is not the brand new item I post to them. PayPal reply was you can take the buyer to the court. PayPal policy is give buyer refund if buyer shows parcel returned tracking details.

Also, I would kindly warning every seller: If your local buyer want to pick up by pay PayPal, you should do a full PayPal refund and asking buyer pay cash. Because I did lost one $200 pump, and PayPal says they are not able to check buyer's "parcel picked" writing notes is true or not. PayPal policy is that the seller must keep the parcel tracking number if buyer paid by PayPal.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

amber-eyed-girl — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:25:14 GMT

That's good, the buyer will need to return it at their expense, this time, too.

thanks for posting an update.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

cq_tech — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:30:05 GMT

As I stated elsewhere, I don't know how you managed to lose a Paypal claim on a pick-up item, as there is NO buyer or seller protection for pick-up items. The dispute should have been rejected out of hand by Paypal (unless you failed to tell them that it was a pick-up item).

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

aquacor — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:31:59 GMT

Case update:

I just received PayPal email say:

We have made a decision for the following appeal.

We have issued you a refund in the amount of $127.75 for this claim. The
refund will be posted to your account within 3-5 business days.

I checked my account, the fund already there. It's good this time. Only lost the time for this bad buyers. For this buyer, will he do same to other sellers in the future? Who knows.

I post this case's purpose is not only asking for help, also, it is a good reference for other sellers. I will write new topic to let sellers exchange their bad experience with bad buyers.

Review this case, this dishonest buyer was try to get 2 extra valves as spare parts. I reply the vale parts can use for years if you are not forcing turn it in wrong way. And I do check the box carefully and wrote "checked" with the posting date. I asking him if you see words "checked" with the date on the parts box. He says yes, but 2 valves "definitely not there".

I think he may have another same filter that bought from me few years ago. And I know this kind of people will none stop to asking more and more from me in the future. Then, I told him that Please return it for a full refund at your cost, and I am happy to pay one way postage for you to end this deal. Also, the filter is useless if without 2 valves, don't keep it. Keep it means you are a lair.

He choice return it back for a refund. But send it by COD, and the return box is much smaller, COD price is only $26, the real postage for this filter should be just over $22. Because the COD includes $8 or more service fee?

So, this buyer must try to get a parcel tracking number for paypal refund purpose that my local post office staff told me.

My local post office handing many ebay power seller's parcels every day, they know a lots of dodgy things happened on ebay from the ebay sellers mouth.

Thanks again for all your help.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

amber-eyed-girl — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:03:51 GMT

Well, that is a good outcome for you, 🙂

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

aquacor — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:28:39 GMT

Thanks and I wish similar things will not happen again to me and all other sellers.

And for eBay policy of "Seller can't leave negative feedback to buyers". I hope eBay can give sellers an option to Pre black bad people who did try to cheating goods for free. Or left a bulk of negative feedback to other sellers in 3 months time.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

3415len — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:18:33 GMT

sorry to here of your problem , but as like most things on Ebay the seller gets the bad end of the stick

I have lost $1000s over the years to scammers who know how to rip the seller and get there products for free, best you except it , place them on your banned list and move on

as there will be little help from this mob, computer programs have no feeling

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

aquacor — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 11:47:23 GMT

In fact, this case happened on my another eBay store: Bestprice28.

For this case, PayPal refund me in full after I appear the PayPal first decision. However, what happened on this buyer's side? Does paypal give this buyer a full refund as well? Who knows.

Untill now, this buyer didn't contact me again for order two "missing valves". But without the valves, the buyer can't use this filter. This means this buyer will lost $127.50. Very strange! Buyer really get $127.50 from PayPal? Or this buyer give up his cheating?

I received this buyer's negative feedback few days ago:

Steer clear of this rude arrogant slanderous seller.He sends incomplete filters

I am very familiar this. Those kind of dodgy buyers always do "A thief called catch a thief".

To get more than they paid, they will spend a lots of time on speak the dishonest stories and bad words for seller who they targeted. And on eBay side, eBay always do favor on this kind of buyers. eBay allow them to leave the negative feedback for seller, but seller can't write any negative words to them.

That's why more and more people jump in for "Fun". One of my local buyer told me that he hear people talk about how to get goods free on ebay in the night bar.

For this Bestprice28 store, I received 5 negative feedback in the last 12 months. All of them were "want more than they paid". Once seller been targeted by them, then, they will create a "bad quality product" cap to put on seller's head. Then, they watching seller's reply... to see if the seller is "stupid or smart seller".

I learn from my previous experience, I know they will find "new problems on the product if you satisfy them". So I always asking them return item back for a full refund. This way, I only lost one postage, plus "some parts missing" on the returned box. But I also let those dodgy people pay one way postage for what they did.

However, this way is not useful for all of them, some of them still return the "rubbish product" as they described, but I they use their working company's money to pay the return postage.

For example, the buyer who left negative feedback: "Rubbish plastic filter, lier of a seller who tries to cheat and steal". In her returned parcel, the return box postage was not paid in the post office, she sticked full of 60 cents stamps, make total over $20 postage. And she took away inside $10 filter media as well. I was try to appear to PayPal, but failed. And I found this bueyr left dozens of negative feedback to other ebay sellers in her "feedback left for others" pages. Also, this is not her only eBay ID. I am sure she did similar in my main ebay store: AquaCor Aquarium. And she blocked by me. Because she did email me after she paid say: are you same person of AquaCor Aquarium?

And I believe that this buyer is belongs to a big family who bought a lots of products from my store, and they were try to cheating more than they paid one by one, and block by me one by one. One of them is a child, He try to get $60 refund by reason that he will fix the filter water leaking problem. he says he don't care me to report him to Police when I warning him "don't send your old filter back to me to instead the brand new filter I post to you". In final, the child didn't return the filter back to me after I warning this child: I will open your return box under Australia Post's security camera. I believe he has another same filter bought from me in early years by his father. I won PayPal dispute due to the buyer didn't return filter back to me.

But this child and his father turn around to report me to Australia Fair Trading with the photo of filter water leaking. I reply to Fair Trading with more photos to show the water leaking problem is made by this child by put something behind the outlet. And I asking the Fair Trading do inspection directly for this "water leaking filter". 100%, He made this water leaking problem and took the photo as evidence for his purpose to get a half price refund. This buyer turns to slient after my reply to the Fair trading department with the truth.

You can learn from what I did to protect your money for same case. However, eBay policy is always in buyer's favor. We can't stop those bad people use buyer's rights to left negative feedback for us. And those unfair negative feedback not only harm seller's reputation. Also harm ebay reputation that eBay don't recognized.

Re: A New Way To Get Goods Free From eBay Seller!!! Any one can help?

aquacor — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:56:16 GMT

Just share more of my experience with you.

I do open boxes and check items one by one, and add a punch mark and post date with non a special non removerable mark pen (water can't remove the marked date) before I post out. And I keep all packing record on paper for at least one month for incase receive "item missing" complains.

For example, who left 2x negative feedback say:

terrible service, NEVER WILL BUY FROM THIS SELLER! DONT WASTE YOUR TIME.

worst service ever, seller is so rude just wants to take your money, DO NOT BUY

In fact, this buyer bought 2 CM pumps. one is CM 6500 at $110, one is CM 10000 at $130. I do combined post by Bx4 box, just fit two pumps. Then, the buyer email say: He only received one pump CM 6500, no CM 10000 in the box. And I don't want wait you send me another pump. I bought another pump in local today. I want a full refund for $130.

I didn't quick argue with this dodgy buyer. Instead, I try to get an evidence to prove he is a lair. I sent reply email say: sorry, can you tell me what the packing box is? Did the packing box been opened? Because I believe the buyer don't know eBay seller's BX4 box coming with special label that only can use for Bx4 box. And this kind of parcels all transporting under Australia Post's cameras.

Then, this buyer reply say: He received pump in a pump box that wrapped by black plastic.

Done. It's is the evidence to prove that he is a lair. I told PayPal to let PayPal check this buyer's evidence of the packing box's post label. In final, I won this dispute. However, I got two negative feedback. eBay say: it's buyer complain your service, not "missing pump", so ebay can't remove them.

If you are new to my eBay store, will you buy goods after you see these negative feedback?

Is this my bad service problem? How I can supply a good service to this kind of buyer to gain a good service?

And there are another two negative feedback from one bad buyer. He didn't return any of his described "Chinese rubbish pump and filter" back to me for a refund till PayPal dispute auto close. In fact, he wants more discount after he receive the parcel. I refused.

A few years ago, this kind of untrue negative feedback can be removed by eBay. and if item is return and refunded, negative feedback also can removed by eBay. But not now.

As an online seller, we have no control on the delivery service for item damage or parcel missing, or delivery delay. So, we understand the buyer's unhappy negative feedback. And it is seller's fault if few buyers don't know how to use the goods and damage the goods after they receive item.

However, ebay keep those cheating seller's goods and want more than they paid untrue negative feedback, it's seems to really unfair for sellers. Because unknown buyers view they are must true, otherwise, ebay will remove it.

Then, who will buy goods from the Rubbish products and bad service seller? And new eBayer will go away from ebay and shopping at local stores. Because no any retail shops stick "It is a bad service, rubbish products shop" in the front shop to warning buyers.