topic Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback in Selling

INR Case and NEG Feedback

clarry100 — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 10:35:49 GMT

If a buyer leaves NEG feedback then opens a PayPal INR case against you, will this NEG be removed by ebay?

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

davewil1964 — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:10:46 GMT

No.

And if they open an INR then leave a negative, the same.

The advantage is with you, but. You don't need to replace, as I believe is your policy, as you have already been shafted and they can't do anything worse to you.

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

clarry100 — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:33:34 GMT

This particular buyer has a pretty miserable history of bad FB left for other sellers over an extended time.

And the two items she has shafted us for were mailed three days apart and she is claiming neither of them arrived. Remotely unlikely.

She refused to answer our questions, even to validate that the postal address was correct.

She has two other INR claims we can see in her FB left for others including one case where she claims that even when the buyer sent out a replacement that never arrived either.

So she either has the world's worst postie or something more sinsiter is afoot here.

She never once asked for a tracking number indicating she knew there was none as we use regular mail. We are sure she received them and knows she will get her refund from PayPal.

But I fear we are doomed to lose this one simply on the grounds we cannot prove postage lodgement, despite a stack of other evidence against this crooked buyer.

Anyone know how we put a case to the ombudsman? And who is this ombudsman? And is it likely to do any good if we try this?

Are there any other avenuse available?

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

lalala-au — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:37:55 GMT

You could try speaking to someone at Ebay but GOOD LUCK!!! Just remember to put her on your block list so she can never do this again to you!

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

clarry100 — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:41:34 GMT

Oh yes she is definitely on our BBL across all our selling IDs.

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

clarry100 — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:52:07 GMT

... and yes Dave.

Our policy is to replace lost items after a few simple questions to establish that it is really lost.

This includes address validation and requests to check their local PO.

We also take a look at their FB history to see if they have any INRs showing there and of course this one did.

Once we establish those things we are happy to resend. Kinda self-insurance as we use regular mail.

If she had really gone to her local PO to check they would have asked her to provide a tracking number. She never asked us for that.

She refused to answer our questions and eventually hit us with the NEGs and opened the two INR cases.

Just kept on answering by just saying where are my items. And with the NEGs came an angry message making all sorts of accusations against us and claiming we accused her of being a scammer. No such accusation was ever made of course. Her guilty conscience coming thru I'd say.

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

digital*ghost — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 12:20:34 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:

Anyone know how we put a case to the ombudsman? And who is this ombudsman? And is it likely to do any good if we try this?
Are there any other avenuse available?

The ombudsman is for complaints about PayPal, and to be honest if they uphold their terms and policies, there's not much of a case for complaints...

What you really need is evidence of the buyer dishonestly claiming INR so that you can report them for online fraud (but again, no solid proof, no real case, unfortunately, all you can really do is make a record of the issue, which will help if she keeps doing it and other sellers follow suit, or have already).

I would lodge the missing article investigations with Australia Post, hopefully her other sellers have done the same and a pattern will become evident to AP - I recall a couple of years ago a seller lodged an investigation and the AP staff member knew that person / address immediately due to frequent INR claims, never found out if AP investigated the person themselves and / or took any action against them, though, but if she has too high a percentage of claims, PP may take action against her account, so the more involved parties made aware of this buyer's poor fortune, the more likely they won't be able to get away with it for too much longer.

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

thecatspjs — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 12:30:47 GMT

If an INR case is found in your favour by paypal - it is eBays policy to remove negative feedback.

If you can not prove post then you are highly unlikely to have a claim found in your favour.

I recall other threads where you have queried these same matters before.

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

clarry100 — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 12:33:47 GMT

In a way we are glad she opened the INR claim as this definitely puts it on her record. Just a bit unfortunate that we have had to cop a couple of big red dots to do it.
Now I just have to come up with some good words to neutralize the NEG s.
Any ideas there DG? You are very good at these things.

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

thecatspjs — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 12:38:06 GMT

Clarry with so many missing items have you ever requested AP investigations?

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

cq_tech — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 12:40:23 GMT

Clarry, in your reply to her neg, you might want to identify the buyer by name so that other sellers can take the appropriate action to protect themselves.

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

digital*ghost — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 12:46:31 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:

Any ideas there DG? You are very good at these things.

Only having 80 characters makes it a bit difficult, unfortunately. You're probably best off deciding on the main thing you want your feedback to reflect and working a response around that - off the top of my head...

Happy to help, requested info to process missing item, buyer refused to assist

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

clarry100 — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 12:51:26 GMT

Across our four selling ID s we estimate about 1 in 500 we end up replacing. More than that are reported but more Often than not they mysteriously show up after some questioning.

We did raise one Lost article report a while back but never heard any more back from AP.
I think this time we will raise another one as DG suggests.

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

clarry100 — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 13:03:21 GMT

Yeah cq good idea. Will work the name into the reply.
If I do this tho and she sees this and reports it is eBay likely.to remove the reply comments altogether.

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

i-love-my-sheep — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 13:16:55 GMT

I would put "XXXX seems to have a LOT of items get lost in the mail".

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

cq_tech — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 13:24:54 GMT

Clarry, I really don't know if eBay would remove her name or not from your follow-up, but given that other sellers have done this and their comments haven't been deleted, I'd be hoping that it would remain for everybody to see.

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

thecatspjs — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 13:34:37 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:
Yeah cq good idea. Will work the name into the reply.
If I do this tho and she sees this and reports it is eBay likely.to remove the reply comments altogether.

Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't ??

Who knows, I imagine if you polled 100 eBay customer service reps you would get at least 5 different responses at the minimum - kinda like Family Feud responses, with some more popular than others but no clear given

Re: INR Case and NEG Feedback

clarry100 — Wed, 06 Aug 2014 07:33:31 GMT

Latest developments....

I called PayPal about this first thing this morning and got a very helpful chap in Arizona.

He took a look at our history and that of the buyer and immediately agreed that from what he could see this looked very much like a repeat scam buyer. He could clearly see more than I could but would not let on any details.

But becasue we had not used a trackable means of mailing he could not find the case in my favour, but he wanted to. The best he was able to do was to rule a NO-FAULT closure of the case. Now this means that the buyer actually still gets a refund from PayPal but we don't lose our money either. He could see that this was giving the buyer what they were after but with the PayPal policies he could not rule how he wanted to in our favour.

Then he suggested I call ebay because in his opinion they should remove the NEGs from our account.

So I then called ebay...

They also took a look at both our track records and once again becasue we had not used trackable means of postage the case was not clear although the CSR wanted to remove the NEGs. She said they would be doing a detailed review and would call me back during the day with a result, but so far no call. And the NEGs are still present. So we are hopeful we will get the NEGs removed as well.

The one good thing according to PayPal is that there is now a (another!!) claim of missing item dispute on the buyer's account. If I could read between the lines this particular buyer is pretty close to having her account closed down at least from PayPal. But he said even if that happens they just go on and open up another account under another ID and/or address and carry on as before. There seems to be no real way to stop them. But he did say that PayPal were actively engineering ways to prevent this kind of buyer from operating.