How to prove when buyer claims I sent wrong item?
I sold an expensive leather planner and buying claimed that I sent them a notebook instead! I can I prove this? I have asked for more photos and questions about conditions but they won’t say anything just kept telling to refund. The buyer has zero feedback.
Also do I have to provide international return postage? Thank you.
47 comments
jspree0415
OP2 years agoUpdate 20/10/2023
Result was eBay granted my appeal and here is the details.
Firstly I would like to thank the community for answering my questions and gave me advice, I really appreciate your help.
So I have gone through the whole process and I have to say that eBay customer service has been extremely helpful and supportive along the whole journey, I was impressed and kind of relieved every time I called them. I probably talked to 10 different people and from the start they all told me not to worry too much and I was protected under seller protections.
At first they told me to offer buyer partially refund but I didn’t agree so they told me to ask the buyer to send the item back at their own cost and of course they refused to do so. The buyer insisted that I had to provide them a return label (from Finland to Australia) and not willing to help in any way. I contacted eBay for advice, they put the case on hold and gave the buyer 5 days to respond. If no response from the buyer then the case will be closed in my favour.
Instantly I received response from the buyer with postage quote €59 or over $100aud through PayPal! Again I went back to eBay as I didn’t believe it would cost that much, it costed $45aud to send to Finland so shouldn’t be double to send back. Ebay told me just pay for it. Okay if I were at my normal self I probably would stop here, I already lost $395 and now they encouraged to loose another $100! I felt like I already got scammed by the buyer and now eBay was scamming me! However I did send money to the buyer and asked for postage receipt (they didn’t provide it). Winning or loosing at this point was not matter anymore, there’s no turning point. I had to go through this!
It took almost 4 weeks for the return to reach me. When it finally arrived I wasn’t home and the case closed within 3 hours after the parcel was delivered, the buyer received full refund (I didn’t even get to open the package yet). The next day I contacted eBay and to my surprise I didn’t even have to go through the whole story, the customer service understood and helped me get through the appeal process.
Firstly to submit photos and evidence (weight discrepancy - my original package weighed 0.665g and returned package weighed 0.367g almost half different. The weights were documented on the labels. Other evidence - the brand of the return notebook is popular in Finland, this particular brand is not available in Australia). Secondly to report buyer I did mine and eBay did theirs (I was wondering why they had to do it but I didn’t ask) and thirdly I had to fill out the statutory declaration form. They were with me whole time, I was clearly upset and was very slow completing each task, at one point the line got cut off and they called me back.
For the statutory declaration form, I was asked how soon I could get it done. I said at the end of the day so they scheduled time to call me back in the morning. It was the same person who called me back, he reviewed the document and reversed the outcome! He gave the reason because I got the statutory declaration form done quickly (I was surprised but didn’t want to question in case it would affect the result). Lastly I didn’t forget to ask about the return postage cost as believed I should be able to claim back a portion. He told me to send him a screenshot of the transaction and he would reimburse the cost.
Now with a big relief but because I’ve been reading so many stories about eBay, I’m still wondering if this is really over now? Am I safe? Would it be a twist coming? Hopefully this is it. Even though I’ve been selling for a while I’ve never gone through this before. Never once I had a complaint or return. The whole process was stressful and not worth selling at all! I’m only a small seller and I’m not selling to make money. Most of stuff I sell is related to planning (something I love and addicted to) and like many other planning fellows, we have gone through rabbit hole, bought too many and still keep buying. I just want to destash something that I won’t be using. I will be looking at other options to sell.
imastawka
·2 years agoI'm glad there was a positive outcome for you.
countessalmirena
·2 years agoI’m glad you were able to get through this stressful process.
springyzone
·2 years agoI am so glad ebay has refunded you. Or I hope all that has happened by now.
I am not so happy to hear that the buyer had a full refund plus got an added bonus on the $100 return postage they charged (but provided no receipt for). I very much doubt that ebay will get that money back from them, which means they got away with the scam but at least now they may be on ebay's radar and may have trouble if they try the same sort of thing again.
You say you are just a small seller, maybe limiting sales to Australia only may make things less stressful?
twyngwyn
·2 years agoWell done! I'd block the 'buyer'...and possibly Finland as well
twyngwyn
·2 years agohow long have they been a member?
for your reading pleasure....
eBay Money Back Guarantee policy | eBay
sugar249
·2 years agoDoesnt matter how long they have being a member.
The policy no where says they must provide images, it only gives details if images are provided
Plus the big kicker is, was it bought through the australian site or another site with no MBG.
twyngwyn
·2 years agoPlus the big kicker is, was it bought through the australian site or another site with no MBG.
Which site/s have NO MBG?
sugar249
·2 years agoI may have summarised incorrectly. the actual policy.
Buyers and sellers are subject to the eBay Money Back Guarantee or other buyer protection policy (if available) of the site where the buyer completed checkout, regardless of the eBay site used to list the item or the registration details of the buyer or seller.
imastawka
·2 years agoIf they bought on another site, then the seller would have to deal with the case on that site, not the Aussie site.
But he's dealing with Australian ebay, from what I gather.
imastawka
·2 years agoFYI -
If the seller's paying for return postage and you agree that they'll send you funds to cover the cost of the return, make sure you've agreed on the postage service and cost before sending the item back. You can either use a postage calculator on the carrier's website to find out how much a tracked service will cost, or get a quote and send it to them.
The seller should send you a separate payment in advance for the return postage charges, as these aren't included in any eBay Money Back Guarantee refund you'll receive.
Return postage for buyers | eBay
twyngwyn
·2 years agoReport an issue with a buyer | eBay
sugar249
·2 years agoWhats to report about the buyer, they didnt get what was advertsised, they have opened a case.
Either dispute the case or cough up for sending the wrong thing.
PS> not saying they did send the wrong thing, but the seller needs to prove it, not just report the buyer. For all we know the seller did send the wrong thing and are just trying to seek assistance in scamming the world. Not really saying that but it is possible
twyngwyn
·2 years agoif the buyer is legit, then surely they would send numerous photos & communications, especially when o'seas??
countessalmirena
·2 years agoYou are going to end up more out of pocket if you don’t just tell the buyer to keep the item and refund them.
Selling overseas is a high risk practice than simply selling domestically. I suggest you change your buyer requirements and change your postage options - Australia only.
domino-710
·2 years agoCountess - only as far as return postage is concerned.
Australia only - get a buyer who says they didn't receive what was purchased - hard to fight.
And asking for a return - you never know what will be received - with tracking.
Lose - Lose.
sugar249
·2 years agoYou have had advise but to answer your question. You don't have any way to prove it.
gutterpunkz05
·2 years agoIs the item supposed to come with the notebook/pad, or is it just a cover, your listing does not appear to show a book. If the items are boxed, have you physically checked each box. Problem may be with your supplier
twyngwyn
·2 years agois this it: 175857012094?
Don't Americans call that a notebook?
twyngwyn
·2 years agoAppunto (slim) | Gillio
there's a Youtube video in above link....maybe send it to them??
...maybe the buyer didn't read the dimensions and was expecting the larger size??
domino-710
·2 years agoThat item is a wallet - but has the description of ' planner '.
Gillio Firenze Slim Appunto Black/Undyed - Brand New
Quality: PGD
Brand new never used. Absolutely stunning planner!
twyngwyn
·2 years agoThe video in the link I put up shows you how to use it as a planner
domino-710
·2 years agoHad a look Twyn,
The item sold is a wallet - which may be ' turned into ' a planner.
domino-710
·2 years agoAre you thinking of ' pocketbook '. ??
twyngwyn
·2 years ago.....LOL, yes 🤐
jspree0415
OP2 years agoBuyer is actually from Finland.
twyngwyn
·2 years agodid they ask any questions before purchase? Do they speak English? Have you had any communication at all, other than the dispute?
My opinion....buyer remorse
jspree0415
OP2 years agoNo questions asked before purchase. They spoke very well english and know exactly what they are doing. When I asked questions they just told me to refund and send them return postage.
twyngwyn
·2 years agowhat was the weight of the parcel?
jspree0415
OP2 years agoI’m not sure I have to check. The problem is I have to provide postage from Finland to here and I have no idea how that would work.
twyngwyn
·2 years agoReturn postage for sellers | eBay
jspree0415
OP2 years agoThank you for mentioning about the weight, here is the photo that buyer sent to me claiming I sent that pink spiral notebook instead of the Gillio 175617586761. The weight on the package said 0.665kg (sorry photo quality here is blurry), today buyer sent return package to me and the weight was only 0.367kg. 🤞
imastawka
·2 years agoHas the case been decided yet?
If not, upload those tracking numbers and point out the weight variance.
If the case is closed, appeal with the new evidence of weight variance.
An appeal can only be lodged if there is new evidence.
gutterpunkz05
·2 years agoStill unlikely to sway ebay, so your only hope will be that ebay foots the cost.
Declared weights are not proof of actual weight, so unless there is some record of actual weight, verified on certified scales for both the shipment and return, it carries little weight. (pun intended).
You now have 3 days to refund the buyer.
springyzone
·2 years agoI don't know that the weight alone will sway ebay as they may put it down to different packaging, but I agree with imastawka that it is well worth a try, appealing. Point out those weight discrepancies, upload the photos to show them.
What would persuade me that you are probably being scammed here (if I were an ebay rep) is the fact the spiral notebook is too cheap. I can't see that it is even in the ballpark of the sort of stock you list. It is worth what? Maybe $5? Therefore it is unlikely to be the sort of stock mix up that could logically happen.
You're a small seller & those spiral notebooks are more the sort of thing carried by Chinese sellers who maybe have a warehouse here.
Couple that with the reasonably big size discrepancy & I see 'scam'. Especially as, although you have been on ebay quite a while, you are just a small seller.
I'd certainly do as stawka says and upload those tracking numbers & point out the weight variance. Go for it. Let us know how you get on. Good luck!
jspree0415
OP2 years agoIt’s actually this one 175617586761
Gillio Firenze Medium Amica Epoca Grey/Pink - Brand New.
The one you pointed out scares me as well as I just realised they don’t have any feedback and bought my item the same day they joined ebay 😭
gutterpunkz05
·2 years agoThe joys of international selling.......it comes with added risks.
You can not prove what the buyer received, as such ebay will side with the buyer.
Yes, you are responsible for return post, and you know what you will get back.
I know it hurts, but if you don't settle the case in the 3 day time frame, you will also incur a dispute resolution fee, $22 , and also incur a seller metric defect. Normally a defect would not be of much concern, but as you are a low volume seller, it could mean additional ebay fees for future sales.
Everyone gets ripped off sometime, the trick now is to recover your losses by additional ebay sales.
jspree0415
OP2 years agoOh dear! A dispute resolution fees on top! I feel like I want to cry. I’m not selling to make money not even to get what I paid for. Ebay is probably not for me.
gutterpunkz05
·2 years agoYep $22 dispute resolution fee, plus ebay keep there fees.
If you resolve the dispute before ebay is requested to step in, then there is no resolution fee, and ebays fees
should make up part of the buyers refund.
You still lose the item and the initial postage, but as it stands you will lose that anyway.
Personally I would cut my losses and refund, however if you want to risk it, see below.
You could try to bluff the buyer, by advising that you have lodged an enquiry with both Australia and Finish customs, to verify the contents of the parcel matched the customs declaration, you could even add the declaration number.
If they are scamming you, it might cause them second thoughts.
papermoon.lady
·2 years agoSellers sometimes have a chance if the buyer says they received something completely different (different weight etc.) because postal carriers normally have weight and dimensions in their system, but the buyer mentioned something similar, so it will be more difficult.
You should certainly block this buyer, as already suggested.
papermoon.lady
·2 years agoThe question is - even if they provide photos, how can they prove it is what they received? They could take a photo of a notebook they have, or buy a cheap one. If they claim they received something else, and you are sure you didn't make a mistake, they are after a freebie.
You can't prove what you sent and the buyer can't prove what he received, but apparently most of the time eBay sides with buyers.
jspree0415
OP2 years agoThis is so sad to hear and sadly it makes me want to stop selling 😭
sandypebbles
·2 years agoIt's true that eBay will *almost* always side with the buyer
Whatever the outcome of this is, put this little person on your blocked bidders list so they can't pull the same thing on you again
And then keep an eye out in case they try opening another account to get around that block (which is against eBay policy, but I doubt this individual would care)
countessalmirena
·2 years agoIf the buyer HAS opened a SNAD case, you must act within 3 business days within the dispute, or it will be found against you automatically.
It’s reasonable to ask for one photo within the dispute. You must decide also if it’s worth promising / organising return tracked overseas postage or if it would be more economical to give full refund without need to return. If you think you’ll get back what you believe you sent, do some calculations and cogitations.
jspree0415
OP2 years agoI won’t get back what I have sent, they sent a photo of a notebook next to my parcel. I asked for more photos and condition if package was broken or damaged, they just said I sent wrong item intentionally and requested immediate refund.
I was hoping somehow I could prove I did send correct item 😭
imastawka
·2 years agoLooks like they're after a freebie if they won't send photos of what they claimed they received.
If they haven't opened a case for item not as described, then do nothing.
jspree0415
OP2 years agoThey have opened a case and asking me to send them international return postage.