Incompetent eBay staff reviewing counterfeit item claims ignoring photographic evidence
Summary: In a discussion regarding issues with eBay's staff handling counterfeit item claims, lordniksidor initiates the conversation by expressing frustration over eBay employees seemingly disregarding photographic evidence in their reviews. There is participation from multiple users, including padi*0409, sandypebbles, and sugar249, who engage with lordniksidor's concerns. The thread sees various responses, but a specific solution or resolution isn't highlighted in the conversation. Participants share similar grievances about the inefficiencies in eBay’s handling of counterfeit claims, contributing to a broader critique of the platform’s customer service. Despite the exchanges, the discussion remains ongoing without a clear conclusion.
I reported a seller's listing after I received two counterfeit, brand new DeWalt batteries from that seller, the cells were clearly second hand, the cells obviously had been recycled, removed from another pack, spot welds ground and installed in a new shell, the cells were old and are of the wrong capacity to be in a (2x2ah does not equal 5ah) 5ah pack, eBay's response - there's no problem. Fantastic to see such great consumer protection and upholding the law... I notice now that even the packaging indicates it's fake, there's no such things as 18v max, it's 20v max branding used by DeWalt not 18v max, 18v is nominal.
countessalmirena
·2 years agoThe sellers selling fakes that are designed to deceive tend to sell at a price point that’s just enough below RRP and just enough above the price of the more obvious fakes to deceive people who are reasonably well informed about the price of genuine items and know to avoid buying the highly unrealistic low-priced fakes. That middle ground is fruitful hunting ground for sellers of fakes following that particular strategy.
lordniksidor
OP2 years agoWhich is once again, not the point, my point was as per the title, it's a shame eBay won't take down scam listings when they get reported. And again, not an unreasonable price, I've literally already bought some from cash converters today in similar condition for less.
countessalmirena
·2 years agoIf it was a Chinese seller, you could report until the moon turns to custard… eBay.cn have different rules. China does not come down on intellectual property theft, and factories churning out fakes operate largely with impunity in China. eBay Australia won’t block the listings as eBay had fought too hard to have a toehold in China.
And… as already said, the standard of evidence for eBay to act against a seller of fakes is more than the assertion of a buyer. Official statement on letterhead, stat dec - these are accepted. (But again, with the usual overseas registered seller caveat.)
sugar249
·2 years agoEven a stat dec would be questionable, sure I can sign a stat dec saying that its a fake, but thats only my opinion, if that was the case OP could sign a stat dec saying every product on Ebay is a fake.
It needs to be a manufacturer or legitimate person not just someone on Ebay who has an opinion. The courts would have a field day, if just a stat dec was sufficient.
springyzone
·2 years ago@lordniksidor wrote:
Half the responses say Obviously they're fake look at all the negs, the other half say Obviously ebay wouldn't take action like banning a seller commiting a crime under the Trade Marks Act 1995 (Cth) and Obviously ebay wouldn't believe it's counterfeit because the photos I've provided do not show any evidence... that's some serious cognitive dissonance. If it was so obvious perhaps ebay should take action when they receive a report?
Yes, you are perfectly right in that there is a cognitive dissonance in that people here say the feedback % and the comments pretty much prove the seller is dodgy or that at least any buyer should have enough evidence from it to be suspicious.
But at the same time, we are told ebay can't possibly make that call.
Fair enough, ebay needs more solid proof that something is counterfeit, they can't just take a buyer's word for it.
But if 97% feedback is gutter material (for a high volume seller) then ebay should be able to see that alright and put severe restrictions on that seller's activities till they get the % up to acceptable standards.
The truth is ebay is bot driven and on the whole, it doesn't care what a seller is selling as long as it isn't against the law. And the laws in China aren't the same as here. Some of the stuff coming out of China won't be up to Australian standards.
Your best bet, if you haven't done it, is to open a proper ebay claim for a full refund on the basis that the item isn't as described or is faulty, whatever. Don't try to just say the batteries are counterfeit. Ebay doesn't seem to argue with buyers who say an item is damaged or faulty etc though so you should win any claim that way.
The main thing is to get your money back.
The seller is supposed to pay for return postage up front if they want the item back. the whole process is harder when the seller is overseas.
But do everything through an official ebay claim.
You can also leave negative feedback but a lot of other buyers are like you and don't necessarily check first before buying. All the same, it is worth it to drag their feedback % a bit lower. 97% can look good to lots of casual buyers but if it can get dragged down into the 80s eventually even those people might have second thoughts before buying.
domino-710
·2 years agoNot sure any of that would work Springy - the buyer has taken the batteries apart - they are now considered damaged.
Not only fake but damaged. lol
springyzone
·2 years agoI think making a claim for faulty items would work, in that you couldn't know they were faulty unless you opened and tried them out.
Personally, if I had been the buyer, I would not mention taking them apart. Ebay couldn't prove you had. They can't 100% say what you receive in the post or what the seller sent.
That's the main problem for ebay.
If I had been sent items that were faulty, fake or not as described, I'd just open a claim, simpler the better. Not too many extra details. And I am pretty sure I would win.
Looks like Lordnik did too. Good for him!
bikeden
·2 years agoIn China, Chinese consumers do not buy locally made 18650 batteries. On Taobao (Chinese online platform) savvy buyers purchase Korean or Japanese cells, knowing any Chinese made cells are fake capacity and low quality.
Liitokala, a respected good brand of battery chargers started selling their own Chinese made cells and they are junk.
As for eBay 'customer service' you were probably talking to an Invidia AI micro chip, not a human.
sugar249
·2 years agoI dont think there is a category for ''buyer destroyed item''
lordniksidor
OP2 years agoYep i've already been refunded in full, it just irritated me that ebay wouldn't take down the scammy listing allowing everyone else to get ripped off too.
countessalmirena
·2 years agoOP, legally admissible proof is a different thing to “Look, I opened it up and it’s a fake”.
If you want a refund for a fake item purporting to be genuine, which you purchased on eBay, then you’ll use the MBG within the 30-day period. You can ask for refund on the basis that it’s not as described, or (higher standard of proof required) ado for refund on the basis of a counterfeit or fake item. To prove the latter, bring the item to the manufacturer or authorised dealer and get them to state that the item is fake, on official letterhead.
eBay will also look favourably upon a stat dec, preferably one that you sign in the presence of a police officer, in which you state that the item is a fake, and the reasons why you believe it is a fake.
It’s certainly easier to get a refund on the basis of item not having stated capacity, etc.
If you’re not looking for a refund (or already have a refund), and your focus is now on getting the seller dealt with for selling fakes, you can report the listing or the seller. The respective Help pages include the links to report. Bear in mind that again, you need to present evidence of the type required by eBay, not what I call experimental or everyday evidence sufficient to convince you or the average person.
Also bear in mind that if the seller is registered on eBay.cn, at most the seller will only suffer a hiccup in their career of selling fakes.
lordniksidor
OP2 years agoHalf the responses say Obviously they're fake look at all the negs, the other half say Obviously ebay wouldn't take action like banning a seller commiting a crime under the Trade Marks Act 1995 (Cth) and Obviously ebay wouldn't believe it's counterfeit because the photos I've provided do not show any evidence... that's some serious cognitive dissonance. If it was so obvious perhaps ebay should take action when they receive a report? Fair enough I'll make sure i go through the negs next time and have a good read. It's really not hard to google search a teardown on an identical model dewalt battery to compare the photos that as you say aren't evidence even when taken with all the negs on the seller that obviously are true without any photos or actual evidence and it's the buyers fault always because you should always expect every item on ebay that's cheap (30% off) to be counterfeit and there's no way to prove it because nothing can ever be trusted and it's the buyers fault always so no issues?? What an incredibly productive discourse.
davewil1964
·2 years agoYou asked for facts, you got them.
Australian law and trademarks do not apply to oversea entities.
Yes, if you're getting 30% off what the nominal manufacturer charges, you should consider them fakes.
sugar249
·2 years agoAnd this is where you are wrong, Ebay in general sides with the buyer, but the buyer needs to provide evidence, not just I think its fake because I took some pictures.
PS. I have no doubt they are most likely fact, but your pictures dont prove a thing.
the-other-burt65
·2 years agoWhile it is visible that two cell at least have been re-welded, you forgot to mention if the batteries actually did work?
Next, if you don't mind, I would like to know why did you decide to open them?
I buy lithium batteries often from Ebay, and it is a known fact that if they are half the price of the OEM ones, you never get the quoted mAh, and they definitely never have the expensive 18650 brand cell that they list..
OEM battery do last longer between charges that most Ebay cheap equivalent. Again, another common knowledge..
You can't pay less for good quality cell. Not even on Ebay...
Now, if you got charged for something new and that is what you got, that would be a different story.
The re-welding on the cell clearly prove that... But that's not something that even Ebay can prevent..
You could ask the seller to replace what he/her has sent you with newer stock, but don't expect OEM quality at those prices...
lordniksidor
OP2 years agoThe first on topic response, I've inspected all the cells and they're all re-welded, old cells removed from something else. It's certainly true that all sellers fake the capacity of batteries and cells that aren't genuine, absolutely true, but this was sold as a new genuine DeWalt branded battery... DeWalt don't recycle cells. I'm not stressed if I bought an off brand battery for half price or less and it's got dodgy cells in it, yes I wouldn't be surprised if I got a 6ah off brand battery that was 2ah, that's pretty much what you'd expect. My issue specifically was that they're selling counterfeit DeWalt branded batteries, and when provided evidence eBay response was... Don't care. I opened the pack to check if it was genuine. And can see that it is not.
You say eBay can't prevent random sellers selling counterfeit products, well I say they could take down the listing when provided evidence... Right? In the first instance no obviously how could they tell it was counterfeit, but after someone has purchased, found that they are counterfeit, provided evidence then yeah they can take down the listing and warn the seller. The seller can still sell the batteries, just not as genuine DeWalt.
Also everyone on about how they're too cheap, mate they're like 30% off retail it's not like I bought it for $10 and expect it to be genuine... And returning the product, leaving negative feedback and reporting the seller is hardly supporting dodgy sellers.
domino-710
·2 years agoDo you actually realise how difficult it is to prove ' fake '.
You say you have send proof - but you actually have no proof the photos you sent were photos the batteries purchased.
They could be any batteries - from eBay's point of view.
lordniksidor
OP2 years agoBy that logic all feedback is false because there's no proof, all photos are fake because there's no proof they are what anyone says they are, not like I can show the battery serial as listed in the sellers photos because they are generic photos and not specifically of that battery. Also if they wanted to review it properly and needed more info to process the claim that it was counterfeit, they could have asked for more info. I'm only irritated because they scammed me.
sandypebbles
·2 years agoThe feedback shows red dot after red dot
No need to 'go through months of history' at all
It is right *there* the amount of negs they have had
97% is terrible
I would not be looking at 'reviews on a product', I would be looking at the seller's feedback
And then choosing not to buy from a seller with that many negs for selling dodgy batteries
padi*0409
·2 years agoSandy, I would hazard a guess that every single battery sold by this "teflon" seller is fake.
sandypebbles
·2 years agoWithout a doubt
Would not matter how many negs they had, folks would still buy them
the-other-burt65
·2 years agoIf you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for the battery/ies?
the-other-burt65
·2 years agoIf you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for the batteries?
Reason for asking is because in the listing you are referring to, they are selling for $79.99 with free delivery while DeWalt sell the same battery (the real OEM) for $128.20 (no free delivery)...
So I got to ask you, why would you think that you bought an OEM battery for nearly half the price?
When an Ebay vendor do sell OEM batteries, they may be $5-10 dollar cheaper and very rarely... Most of the time they cost a bit more because they built the price up to then pretend to include the free delivery..
Again, you can't buy good quality 18650 on Ebay, at much lower prices that any other retailer..
It is common knowledge that those half price batteries are not OEM (but the case is) well the shape is, the sticker is always missing important bits and that it is also the other clue that they are not OEM batteries..
I agree with you as, it would be nice if Ebay forced those sellers to admit that they are not OEM, but then again I don't see anywhere in that listing the word OEM printed on a picture or listed. The only misleading thing in that page is that the vendor did use two pictures of the OEM battery still in the package..
If you mentioned that to Ebay, those two picture could possibly get removed, but again, the price is/was the main clue here...
lordniksidor
OP2 years agoIf they said for dewalt, and didn't pretend it was genuine, and did not have dewalt branding and trademark on the battery you'd have a point. You can get genuine from tool selection eBay item number:126509144260 for $97 with a coupon for $93, it's not a huge leap to $80. Anyways all's well that ends well, i went down to cash converters this morning and got 3 practically new (late 2023 date code) batteries for $60 each. Bargain, genuine and 2 were still in their boxes. As I say, it's not like I bought the originals for $10 and expect perfection, I just paid a reasonably good sale price. It's like no one on here has been on ozbargain.
the-other-burt65
·2 years agoLike I said, I agree with you in the concept, but I have never been able to buy OEM battery (I use Milwaukee) at a much cheaper price than Total tools or Power Tools or Sydney Tools (you get the picture)...
Then again, I never really put that much input into it.. I use about 6-7 battery per year, and my reply to you was based on my personal experience...
But thanks for the Cash converter tip...
sugar249
·2 years agoWhats the saying about if the price is to good, it most likely is.
Stop supporting rogue sellers,
halfgweilo
·2 years agoYou mean "if the price is TOO good, it most likely is.
etb321
·2 years agoWhy did you post here rather then email DeWalt?
sugar249
·2 years agoyes dom
domino-710
·2 years agoLOL - rent free.
sandypebbles
·2 years agoAs mentioned, the seller you chose to support has numerous negs that they sell fakes
You bought anyway and now complain eBay said there is no problem
Other buyers posted warnings (negative feedback) and more buyers such as yourself buy anyway and then post on the member forum eBay are incompetent
Did you provide proof they are fake?
You could protect yourself and others but not buying from a known seller of fakes and helping them stay in business, and opening a not as described dispute
In other words, take responsibility for your own buying choices, especially caring about who you buy from enough to look at feedback first, which would had you taken far less time than it took to post here
ebay do not go on a buyers say so alone
lordniksidor
OP2 years agoDid you look at the reviews on that item? They're all positive, I didn't go back though months of history no, they've got 97% positive feedback, did I provide proof they're fake? Yes buddy I provided photos, did you read the title?
padi*0409
·2 years agoOne click on their negative feedback would have shown you their true face.
sugar249
·2 years agoDo you really think 97% is good, it gutter material, it mean 3 out of every hundred are unsatisfied with the seller, and than add another equal amount of neutrals which arent included in the percentage. And you are just supporting a dogy seller.
PS your photo show no proof just that you are able to open the battery pack who knows what the manufacturer puts inside. You would have to as a minimum, show the real item, but also get prove from the manufacturer. It's not up to Ebay to believe a couple of non descript photo's.
padi*0409
·2 years agoDid you even bother to read their feedback before buying from them ?
It's riddled with negs for fake batteries..................