Seller claiming I broke an already broken return
Summary: In a discussion about a dispute with a seller regarding a return, oi_wazzok expressed frustration over being accused of breaking an item that was already broken upon return. designers*n*more, merfar2107, and domino-710 engaged in the conversation, likely offering their perspectives or support to oi_wazzok. oi_wazzok continued to express opinions throughout the thread, while others like lezned-toycollector, davewil1964, and springyzone also contributed, although the specific nature of their responses isn't detailed.
Hi, I don't think I've ever posted here in 20 years of being on eBay but here goes.
I purchased an expensive cassette player for $1050 AU from Japan listed as FPONW. It was explained in the listing that the device works, but that the cassette door is faulty so it's sold as FPONW.
When it arrived I noticed the following:
1. Missing screws (not shown in listing)
2. Missing wooden mahogany side panels
3. Extensive damage to various parts shown nowhere in the photos
4. Device didn't electricity at all
5. Serious damage to accessories (not even pictured in the listing photos)
The photos also showed the seller had blocked out the serial number (something I initially missed before buying but didn't think would be an issue anyway after I noticed). So it's likely they used someone else's listing photos or a generic image.
Item was listed as seller not accepting returns. I politely explained the issues and asked for some kind of compensation. In this situation I figured I'd have to live with them getting away with this but without accepting returns and them being in Japan. I could at least get a fair partial refund because the item was so significantly not as described.
They sent me one of the coldest messages I've ever gotten and offered me $30 dollars compensation... for a $1050 item. I politely refused (but in all truth I felt it insulting). They sent me an utterly tasteless reply which really struck a nerve with me so I decided to open a return request (despite them not generally agreeing). I sent photos of all the undocumented damage etc. I described above and argued SNAD.
Nothing for 1 week but then the seller offered the $30 again. I declined and told them 2.8% is not suitable compensation. A few days later they accepted the refund and sent me a shipping label within 10 hours. I took photos and even a video describing the item and showing it being packed very securely in a brand new box.
After 2-3 delivery attempts the seller got it but now the seller is arguing I broke the item? It's missing screws and they sent a photo with the cassette door ripped off. I definitely didn't send it like that... The door didn't even open anyway. I was meant to get a refund today but it's been extended to the 19th (another 5 days).
What's my options at this point? I have the photos and video of the item in the exact condition I got it (arguably a little cleaner than how dusty it was when I got it). 20 years on eBay and I've never had this situation (thank God). At this point the seller got the item back that they sent and I still lost $250 in import fees and taxes, plus they still have my money... and the item.
countessalmirena
·4 months ago❝Item was listed as seller not accepting returns. I politely explained the issues and asked for some kind of compensation. In this situation I figured I'd have to live with them getting away with this but without accepting returns and them being in Japan. I could at least get a fair partial refund because the item was so significantly not as described.❞
❝So I added my photos to the message chain I have had with the seller. This shows both the item that I got (free of the issues the seller blamed me for) and that I packaged the item extremely well. So if the item is not functioning properly, the issue is with the courier or the seller breaking the item after getting it back.❞
❝I did add this evidence? That's why I asked for the compensation but he only offered $30...❞
❝I packaged the item back better than I got it, proved that with numerous photos, the seller paid for postage insurance and if there was any damage in transit he should have taken it up with FedEx.❞
I’ve quoted the above excerpts from several of your posts, and will try to address them.
1. Sellers do not get to decide whether or not to accept a return request for an item not as described. If their listings state “Returns not accepted”, that refers only to Change of Mind returns. You found this out by pressing ahead with a return case, which was the right thing to do.
2. eBay’s MBG is not set up for buyers to request a partial refund. A seller can OFFER a partial refund to the buyer but there is absolutely no requirement for a buyer to accept. You went through with the return which - again - I think was the right thing to do. (I’d only caution against starting the return dispute with a request for a partial refund.)
3. You make a point of mentioning that you packed the item well, and you suggest that the item could have been damaged in transit from you to the seller. That is exactly what you shouldn’t be saying. I assume you suggested this in communication to the seller…?
Think about this: if you receive an item and it’s damaged, and the seller insists that it was undamaged when he posted it, does that mean the seller is free of obligation? Of course not. Packaging of the item has to be of a standard to withstand the exigencies of shipping. If it’s not, that’s on him. Buyer would simply open an INAD/SNAD return request for full refund. But that obligation works both ways. By even hinting that your packaging/packing might not have been sufficient to protect the item during the return shipping process, you effectively rendered yourself more vulnerable to being held responsible for damage putatively incurred during the return.
❝I sent an item back to the seller, but it got damaged in transit. Can I still get a full refund?
If the item was damaged due to it being insufficiently packed and protected, then the seller might deduct an amount from your refund for loss of value.
[…]
Buyers may be liable for loss in value of the item if it's returned in a different condition from how it was received, or if the item is not packaged securely to prevent damage in return shipment. In the event that an item is not returned to the seller in the same condition, the seller might deduct the amount of loss from the buyer's refund. ❞
Up to 50% can be deducted by the seller if he is claiming the item was returned damaged.
https://www.ebay.com.au/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/condition-returned-items-policy?id=4763
In this case you were fully refunded but eBay’s bot-driven process resulted in your full refund being funded by eBay. It’s a good outcome given that you could have been considerably out of pocket.
Whatever measures you need for future online purchases, I hope you can implement them.
oi_wazzok
OP4 months agoeBay emailed me that they have given the seller 5 days to provide more information...
The seller has still already re-listed the item for 50% more money. Really feels like my time is being 100% wasted here and the seller is trying to double-dip, by selling the item again for 50% more money and then trying to keep some of the money from the first sale...
oi_wazzok
OP4 months agoI got a full refund today, eBay's statement implied that I lied/did not return the item in the same condition as I got it based on the response they got from the seller. "As a courtesy we are offering a full refund this time".
Absolute nonsense to imply that I was untruthful. I packaged the item back better than I got it, proved that with numerous photos, the seller paid for postage insurance and if there was any damage in transit he should have taken it up with FedEx. I'm glad to have gotten all my money back but the fact that the seller already relisted the product for about 50% more than I bought it for shows that if anything, he got it back in better condition.
This will definitely change how I use this platform in the future.
1. Absolutely no purchases from Japan. I will go through a reputable middleman/escrow.
2. No purchases of items that do not take returns in some fashion.
Shame. It's not like I am so naïve to think that I'll never have problems but I resent the fact that this seller was so easily allowed to waste my time and then imply that eBay had to do me a 'favour' to give me all my money back. I still lost over $200 in import taxes!
lezned-toycollector
·4 months agoEvery eBay seller offers returns "in some fashion" - just saying
davewil1964
·4 months agoeBay refunded, not the seller. I doubt the seller implied anything. From your OP the seller was adamant that the returned item wasn't in the condition they sent it as.
Clear obfuscation (awaiting the Countess on that one), trying to avoid refunding. Which eBay almost certainly wore the cost.
springyzone
·4 months agoI can feel your pain.
Not only are you out of pocket in import taxes, but your accurate and fair feedback was removed as well.
It is mega annoying. I've been there (with the feedback removal, not the taxes).
Part of your problem is probably being too nice. You mentioned you eventually opened an ebay claim, although the seller wasn't keen for you to do that.
When things go wrong like this, you do not even have to communicate with the seller unless you want to. You are free to open a claim whether they like it or not.
You also knew very well that the item was repacked carefully and the damage or changes shown later were extremely unlikely to have been caused in transit. Had that been the case, the seller would have been showing you photos of the torn packaging. The cassette door could not be ripped off in transit if the package had not been opened. Yet you suggested to the seller that it had not been returned like that and maybe had been damaged in transit. You were probably trying to soften the blow from implying the seller was a liar. But this is a business transaction so never admit liability.
The excellent part is at least ebay has refunded you. The annoying bit is the seller has not lost his money, plus has the item back to resell. Win, win for him.
Be very wary buying expensive things from overseas, full stop. Not only Japan.
You don't have to limit yourself to only items that offer returns though. Any item you buy is covered by ebay for a return if it is significantly not as described. Sellers sometimes say no returns, but that covers change of mind only. For faulty items, they have no choice. Ebay allows a return for those.
oi_wazzok
OP4 months agoAlso quite unfairly the seller had my negative feedback removed which was left after the user offered such an insulting amount of compensation. I was very careful to ensure my feedback was 100% within eBay's feedback rules and it was not unnecessarily long either but they removed it anyway.
I suspect the seller has likely had a lot of feedback removed. Especially as they have some negatives which have been sent as positives... which haven't been removed.
So at this point my trust in eBay is a bit on the fence as there's been no fair compensation and definitely no consequences for this seller...
domino-710
·4 months agoJust a question - when opening the NAD case - why did you not add all the evidence of missing - damaged ecteras. ??
oi_wazzok
OP4 months agoI'm confused, I did add this evidence? That's why I asked for the compensation but he only offered $30... about 2% of what I paid. I left the evidence of shipping, packaging and final condition photos etc. until the end because I didn't want to give the seller a chance to construct some lies based on what I posted.
I thought the process would be similar to PayPal where you can upload photos after a claim is made but it seems eBay just gives you a tiny window with "Case on Hold" and a tiny drop down of the initial message you sent in the claim + buyers first response and nothing else. No way to add photos to the case specifically etc.
I've been on here for 20 years and never had to go through this process thankfully. I'm very careful at what I buy and generally chalk mistakes up to experience. In this case I drew a line when I got such an unfair response from the seller.
designers*n*more
·4 months agoYou can escalate the claim which eBay then steps in and in most cases EBay will side with the buyer particularly when SNAD.
oi_wazzok
OP4 months agoCan I send the images/video after escalating to a claim?
I'd like to send them later so the seller doesn't have a chance to just pivot his lies/excuses based on the evidence I have if I send it now.
Or is it impossible to add more evidence when a claim is started?
padi*0409
·4 months agoAre you aware that Japan operates on 100 volts AC ? If you have plugged it in and turned it on you will have fried the electronics if you didn't use a Voltage transformer.
oi_wazzok
OP4 months agoYes, I have quite a few JDM items and I use this: https://www.tortech.com.au/product/voltage-converters/step-down/isolated/isolated-japanese-step-down-transformer/
oi_wazzok
OP4 months agoThe seller has escalated this to a claim via eBay after not responding to me.
It seems I am not able to add any images to the claim (which is what I suspected would be the case). So I added my photos to the message chain I have had with the seller. This shows both the item that I got (free of the issues the seller blamed me for) and that I packaged the item extremely well. So if the item is not functioning properly, the issue is with the courier or the seller breaking the item after getting it back.
I also find it ironic that the seller, who has multiple of these devices. Isn't showing the serial number at all. So he could be using a completely different item in a different condition to pass for this case...
I'll update as to whether or not eBay honours my refund or rips me off and allows the seller to keep the item, my money and then re-sell it to another unfortunate person.
merfar2107
·4 months agoGood luck. Hope it all works out for you.
oi_wazzok
OP4 months agoThanks very much. Do you have any idea if calling eBay directly would help in this situation? I think it would be really disgusting if the seller can keep my money and the item...