Seller wants me to pay outside eBay - what happens if I won't pay?
I won an auction where the freight wasn't specified. Instead of sending an invoice through eBay, the seller texted me for my email address, and then emailed me a Paypal invoice. Ie the want me to pay outside of eBay to avoid fees. I said I don't like it, and have heard no more.
What happens next? If I don't pay, can they give me negative feedback? I reported the item to eBay, but have heard nothing in several days, and eBay is still sending me payment reminders. Meanwhile the seller has auctioned the same camera twice more, so definitely dodgy.
Should I try to cancel the sale? Or trust that eBay will fix it all up?
17 comments
peters6086
OP3 years agoThanks for your help, everyone.
peters6086
OP3 years agoI find eBay mysterious at times, so the alarm bells didn't ring when they texted me for my email address. Probably should have been suspicious from the start - no shipping charge specified (just said "Freight"), 24 hour auction. If I'd looked at their other cameras I would have seen the exact same description "Company bought for project, but didn't use".
What's the "Freight" option for? Is that where it would be impossible to calculate shipping beforehand? Not likely for a small camera.
eol-products
·3 years agoUsing freight will not give the buyer a postage cost so they cannot pay on ebay.
If the paypal invoice is for a personal payment not an item payment then no protection. In the past you could enter the ebay item number in the paypal invoice which would show the details.
peters6086
OP3 years agoI used the live chat, and it's all fixed, the strike is removed and they're investigating the seller.
The Paypal invoice just says this, no item mentioned, so can I assume there'd be no protection?
Here's your invoice
xxxx Pty Ltd sent you an invoice for $305.00 AUD
Due on receipt.
Invoice details
peters6086
OP3 years ago"If the OP comes back, hopefully they might be able to give us an item number for the listing so we can have a look, and maybe report the seller if they look dodgy."
I'm still here. I'm not sure I want to start a public witch hunt by posting the item number. I already reported the item for the request to pay outside eBay, but the reporting system doesn't ask for any details, and they say they won't inform me of the results. Unless they look in my messages (can they?) to see the reminder to check my texts, and my reply that I don't want to pay outside eBay, they won't be able to do much.
The seller has now cancelled the sale, so I guess I've got a non payment flag on my account. Should I be able to see that?
The were definitely trying to avoid the fees, they said so in a text. They also resold the camera twice more over the next few days (same photos, including a photo of the serial number), so they were either pretty confident I wouldn't pay, or had no intention of sending me a camera.
eol-products
·3 years agoIf a buyer pays outside of ebay there will be no recourse against the seller so they can continue to sell the same camera over and over. With them using the freight option the buyer cannot pay via ebay to give them protection. Eventually someone will pay otherwise these type of things would not continue.
eol-products
·3 years agoWas the paypal invoice for an item or personal money transfer.
springyzone
·3 years agoIf they cancelled with a reason such as non payment, then yes, you should know about it as you would get a message from ebay. It doesn't say you have a strike or anything, just that the seller has reported that the item was not paid for. I forget the exact wording. I got one once for a pick up item I did not pay for as it was not as described.
I expected the seller would cancel the sale. I am not so sure the reason he would give would be non payment, although I suppose he could. I would have thought something like 'problem with buyer's address' would be better.
But you could do what I did. I contacted ebay chat and explained and the rep removed my strike. I was sent a copy of the chat. I know one strike won't affect a buyer, but it was the principle of the thing that got me. I think you should do this.
From what I can gather from past threads, the reps could see your messages but probably would not delve into it unless you asked them to. And you should ask them to, as evidence.
I am glad you didn't pay up. I am not convinced the seller was trying to defraud you of the camera itself as even outside of ebay, if you didn't receive it or it wasn't as described, you'd have recourse to paypal, which the seller would or should be well aware of.
They could well be asking for payment outside of ebay from every buyer, which is why the sales are falling through. But if you and any other potential buyer got onto ebay chat to point out the multiple sales, I hope the ebay reps would follow it up.
springyzone
·3 years agoIt sounds a bit dodgy to me but I am trying to figure out how the seller would avoid fees.
They could dodge paypal fees I guess, if you marked it as a personal payment, but I can't see how they could avoid ebay fees unless they marked it as a cancelled sale, with a reason such as a problem with your address.
If you were paying via paypal, even outside ebay, you would still be protected by paypal in the event you did not receive your item etc, but of course by paying outside of ebay, no ebay protection.
Did the camera actually sell at the other 2 auctions?
I am wondering if the other sales fell through because those buyers refused to pay off ebay.
In summary, I think the seller is dodgy but probably only in the area of trying to avoid fees. All the same, you don't want to get caught up in it. There's no benefit to you & plenty of risk.
Feedback is the last thing you need to worry about. Basically, the seller can't give you a neg.
He could give you a strike for non payment, as others have said, but I don't know that he would, because you could easily call his bluff and just pay. I think it would be more likely that he would just cancel the sale.
I am also betting the seller was very careful what he said in ebay messages & kept the outright requests to texts.
As others have said, one strike on your account won't hurt you but on principle, I would not be putting up with it or even the possibility of it.
Get onto ebay chat, lay it out clearly. Take a screenshot of the text message if you have to so you can show them.
davewil1964
·3 years agoThey avoid fees by not paying them to eBay on the postage/freight component.
Paypal fees are significantly (around 10%) less than eBay fees.
So yes, they are trying to avoid fees. Not to mention the problems with getting money back if there is an issue.
*sons_n_daughters*
·3 years agoThey may not be trying to avoid fees, but probably trying to scam. List a camera at a good price, it sells at auction for a good price. Seller requests payment be made off ebay, so they can void any buyer protection. Buyer decides to pay because they really want that camera at a good price. Seller sends a scarf or a pen. Absolutely nothing the buyer can do about it. Seller wins, buyer loses.
I'm so pleased the OP got concerned enough to ask. I believe they dodged a bullet. Sadly, others may not be that lucky, especially if they are low feedback buyers who are still under the impression ebay is the place of bargains.
If the OP comes back, hopefully they might be able to give us an item number for the listing so we can have a look, and maybe report the seller if they look dodgy.
peters6086
OP3 years agoThe only evidence about this in the eBay system is a message asking me to check my text messages, and a reply from me saying I don't want to pay outside of eBay. Then no more replies from them.
There are also three separate autctions showing the same camera with the same serial number in one of the shots.
*sons_n_daughters*
·3 years agoAs the others have said, they can't leave you negative feedback. They may open a non payment dispute to get their fees back, or they're going to be paying a lot of fees if people realise they are scamming. If you don't pay, you get a strike on your account. PLEASE DON'T PAY! In the event that happens, get onto ebay, explain what has happened and they should remove the strike.
That said, unless you are in the habit of not paying, a single strike won't affect your account at all. No one can see it except ebay. It will drop off after 12 months.
peters6086
OP3 years agoHow do I find this live chat? I've hunted around the help system. I'm in Australia, not sure if it's different here.
sandypebbles
·3 years agoWe are in Australia too (being the member to member forum for eBay Australia)
You'll need to wait until normal business hours
It's under 'Live Help' at the top of every page
You'll need to scroll to 'contact us' at the bottom
imastawka
·3 years agoI think you have dodged a bullet IMO.
NEVER pay off ebay. There is no buyer protection.
You don't have to do anything. Only sellers can cancel sales.
Ignore the ebay reminders, they will stop.
Buyers can only get positive feedback. It has been this way for many years.
If the seller gives you a green dot, but with negative comments, advise ebay and they will remove it - and deal with the seller.
sandypebbles
·3 years agoBuyers can only be given positive feedback
The payment reminders are automated
You cannot cancel the sale, only the seller can
Have you used Live Chat to let them know the seller is insisting you pay outside eBay to avoid fees?
Have they only sent you this via email, or in an eBay message?
You say you reported the item but does the listing say anything about paying outside eBay to avoid fees?
You really need to make it 200% crystal clear, not trust eBay to fix it all up. They are unlikely to do anything by you reporting the item alone
Get onto Live Chat (you may need to try more than once , point out the selling on the same item over and over etc
The seller *may* already be on their radar if other buyers have reported them