Appropriate response to payment dispute.
Summary: En la discusión sobre la respuesta apropiada a una disputa de pago, varios participantes, incluyendo shoaltech, gutterpunkz05, y etb321, intercambian ideas a través de múltiples respuestas. La conversación es extensa pero carece de contenido detallado visible. Los participantes parecen estar colaborando para encontrar una solución adecuada a la disputa, aunque no se proporcionan detalles explícitos sobre sus propuestas o conclusiones. La interacción es dinámica y recurrente, con participantes como the_dutchess_of_dork y domino-710 contribuyendo en diversos momentos. En general, el tono del intercambio sugiere un intento activo de resolver el problema de la disputa de pago mediante un diálogo colectivo.
A buyer wanted to return an item. I told them that was fine and provided the address. The buyer said he sent it back. After some time he asked about the refund and I asked if I could have the tracking. He provided tracking showing a delivery to the correct suburb. The tracking said no signature required and that it was left at the premises. The time of the delivery on the tracking was well inside my usual business hours when I would never be unavailable for deliveries.
I contacted Ebay asking what to do. They said since there was no actual return started that I didn't need to do anything.
He has now started a dispute with his payment institution. The reason being 'The item doesn't match the description in your listing', however in the comments he states that he has sent the item back. FYI, it's an expensive item, approx $1500.
I'm wondering if the best course of action is to address that the item was not as described, or that I never actually received it. Or both? Any advice is welcome.
pnc75
·1 year agoMight be time to get Fair Trading involved.
shoaltech
OP1 year agoI just got off a chat with Ebay asking for an update. I would love to upload a copy of the chat to show the sheer level of deceptiveness and/or incompetence on display here. It's actually unbelievable. When I kept pointing out the fact that I provided the information they were requesting, she ended the chat.
twyngwyn
·1 year agoI've had a 'warning' in the past for uploading the transcripts....but sometimes I get away with it 😈
twyngwyn
·1 year agoSo, have I got this right?
1) Buyer does not launch a return item via ebay, but personally through you?
2) You accept return, but it is delivered to wrong address?
3) A.P. deliver to a different address?
4) So, at this stage....dispute should be between 'buyer & A.P.'?
5) Why is eBay involved?
6) Has buyer done a chargeback through bank....or threatened it?
Sorry, if I've missed something......something's not right!
domino-710
·1 year agoRead back Twyn - a payment institution - is his bank - the buyer's.
twyngwyn
·1 year agoright, so #6....chargeback through bank.....but....item has been delivered to incorrect address by A.P. allegedly, so, seller is potentially out of item & payment?
Buyer did not send back with 'signature required'.....hardly seller's fault. If correct, buyer (now the sender) should take it up with A.P.
What a mess!
A fantastic rort or a litany of errors??
shoaltech
OP1 year agotwyngwyn, Yes that is all correct. However, I believe it is very likely that Aust Post did delivery the item as addressed. I think there is a fairly good chance the buyer sent a small package or letter to an address that is close enough to my address, that the tracking shows delivery to the correct suburb, and then claimed they had returned the item to me. ie, a scam.
twyngwyn
·1 year agoOK, so....where is the photo evidence? What did A.P. send you?
gutterpunkz05
·1 year agoDid you ever get around to checking with AP, the size and weight of the returned item.
gutterpunkz05
·1 year agoWas that in relation to the actual chargeback, or in relation to info now required for seller protection.
shoaltech
OP1 year agoThat was information in relation to seller protection. The agent asked for the documents and provided a link for me to upload them. I did so, then the agent went to examine them. After sometime she came back but bizarrely then refused to acknowledge my questions/statements and the documents I submitted, only replying to me with copy-and-paste answers completely unrelated to what I was telling her. And then just abruptly said I can't help you any further and ended the chat.
domino-710
·1 year agoI would first check with Aust Post - in the correct suburb - which address was the item delivered.
They have record of this - given - the tracking number.
Have you considered - Fair Trading - this is now between you and the buyer for $1500 - you have the buyer's details - and - could submit all evidence.
shoaltech
OP1 year agoetb321, Yes possibly. I don't know enough about that whole scene to know how it works but quite possibly you're right.
domino-710 I requested from Australia Post a confirmation of the delivered item. They provided a document showing the item was delivered to an address different from mine. I then contacted Ebay and the agent took all the details. I'm a bit concerned because since that call I have heard nothing, he said they would be in contact with me requesting information. He did say it could be 24 hours though so I will wait.
gutterpunkz05
·1 year agoFor one the payment dispute was between the buyers bank and ebay, You only get to furnish info you wish to be considered to ebay and ebay then issues a defence to the claim.
The bank is hardly likely to just tick a box, there are processes to be followed and they would need to be able to legally substantiate their decision and the reasons for making it.
There decision would also be open to audit processes and possible challenges.
Note: as it appears the return was not via ebay, ebay would only be able to state that they have no record of any return process being innitiated.
domino-710
·1 year agoRead again ........................
etb321
·1 year agoI disagree. Ebay has no interest or part in the dispute. Their role is simply to forward the seller's response to the bank and the bank's response to the seller. I hold to my view it is unlikely the bank actually bothered to consider the seller's response.
gutterpunkz05
·1 year agoNo accountability. Really, how do you come to this conclusion?
The buyers transaction is with ebay, not the seller
etb321
·1 year agoEbay is a facilitator, Ebay doesn't sell anything, (apart from advertizing).
I don't have anything more to add to the discussion so I'll conclude with the obvious. Only accept returns if forced to by ebay.
gutterpunkz05
·1 year agoshoaltech
OP1 year agoSo I just received a message from Ebay saying that the dispute was found in favour of the buyer. I now have to go through the extremely painful process of providing all the evidence to Ebay that I never received the item back. Even though Ebay's Seller Protection Policy clearly states that I should be covered in this situation, the last time this happened Ebay did not honour this despite me demonstrating that I clearly satisfied all the criteria for seller protections.
gutterpunkz05
·1 year agoBest of luck, but wasn't the return outside of ebay
sugar249
·1 year agoThats how I read it, so self imposed pain
shoaltech
OP1 year agoNothing self imposed at all. I've done everything as correctly as possible. Have you ever got anything whatsoever positive to say?? These types of comments is all I ever see from you.
pnc75
·1 year agoGood luck. You are obviously dealing with a scammer. Hope it works out positively for you. Please come back and let us know how you go.
etb321
·1 year agoI'm of the view the bank employee responsible for chargeback decisions didn't bother to read your response. Just glanced at the screen to check a bank proforma filled in by their customer, had all the boxes ticked.
shoaltech
OP1 year agoThanks for all the replies. I am preparing my response now. I am going to address that the item provided was exactly as described. And also detail everything regarding the supposed return and the fact that I never received anything.
the_dutchess_of_dork
·1 year agoYou have got to be kidding!
Who in their right mind would not go through ebay for a $1,500 return and would not add Signature on Delivery? Not to mention insurance as it would be limited to $100 in the event of it going missing or being damaged. Screams scammer to me.
If it's any consolation I went through my credit card provider to obtain a refund for a cancelled concert when Ticketek failed to respond to any of my correspondence and I was still waiting after three months. The bank made me jump through all sorts of hoops and that was not for a physical item so I could easily prove payment taken from my credit card and never refunded. I'm pretty sure they're not simply going to take his word for it that he returned it. In addition, my postie often takes photos of the parcels on my doorstep even when they do not require a signature.
I would stick to the item return never received argument because I assume Australia Post have a record of the address he supposedly returned to.
Good luck!
etb321
·1 year agoI hold different views.
Firstly, you've heard I think, that 'ebay is all about the buyer', with slight modification 'banks are all about their customers'. i am of the view if the buyer walked into the bank wearing a placard 'I am an online scammer' he would stlll win the chargeback case.
Secondly I am of the view there is no love lost between the banks and ebay. An opportunity to stick the boot into ebay; however small, would not be overlooked.
sugar249
·1 year agoAnd your evidence of this. Why would the banks not like Ebay, another source of revenue!
etb321
·1 year agoI am of the view, (it's my personal opinion), your user name is misleading, I think salty249 would be more appropriate, but to answer your question.
The choice of an overseas payment provider wasn't particularly patriotic.
springyzone
·1 year agoI thought that too and I am seriously worried for shoaltech as it sounds as if he is being scammed.
I have no idea how the buyer will get on with the bank but I really hope someone, somewhere, looks into it properly for him.
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Shoaltech, I'd probably be inclined to go down the track of saying I did not receive it back, because that is the truth, but I am not a seller so it would be best to get other opinions about that, but good luck. That's a lot of money to have on the line.
etb321
·1 year agoEbay won't be helpful but try to find out what bank the customer is using. So that if you lose the chargeback you can bring a complaint against the bank and have the decision reviewed by the AFCA.
etb321
·1 year agoMy thinking? Your about to be scammed out of the item and the money.
gutterpunkz05
·1 year agoThat is my thinking too, the old return a small item/letter to a close address scam.
Anyway, as the return is not via ebay, I doubt the MBG or any other ebay seller protections, including the need for SOD will apply,
happy to be corrected on that.
countessalmirena
·1 year agoYou’re protected, OP, as the buyer did not send with signature required.
https://www.ebay.com.au/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/signature-confirmation-policy?id=5154
shoaltech
OP1 year agocountessalmirena, I completely agree with you there. HOWEVER, the last time a buyer lodged a dispute with their payment institution, even though I should have been 100% covered under seller protection, Ebay said that in these situations, because the dispute is with the payment institution and not Ebay itself, they are not able to do anything. I argued with them until I was blue in the face, constantly pointing them to their own page with the seller protection policy. And each time I was given the usual copy and paste response. And I lost the money.
gutterpunkz05
·1 year agoAlways use the proper ebay return process.
All I can suggest is to get onto AP, verify weight and measurements of the return shipment. Also try to obtain the address of safe drop and they should also be able to provide a photo of the delivered item in situ.
Best of luck