Are Vero Bans Constitutionally legal in Australia or could they lead to a class Action
So the reason Im writing this is I got a Vero warning and a takedown of listing on a hat I still swear is legitimate .
I was told next time I will Have a 3 day suspension from the site . It seems a very Drastic action considering that a counterfeiters whole business model is to fool people, including the experts , so what chance do I Have of determining the absolute Authenticity of an Item that I brought third hand . So anyway I was on the **bleep** ( Beers ) with my high class Barrister mate telling him my Storie and he was like " under Australian Law if you didn't know you were Breaking the law there's a probability you couldn't be prosecuted for it " So I was like but Ebay can Still ban Me ,' I saw the dollar signs flash across his eyes and he said that's not legal if you didn't know you were committing a crime , something called mens rea and he would love to test it .
Then he sent me an Email stating the next few segments :
The general rule of the English law is that no crime can be committed unless there is mens rea.
In Australia, the common law presumption of fault-based liability is also reflected in statute. Section 5.6 creates a rebuttable presumption that, to establish guilt, fault must be proven for each physical element of a offence.
In Australia offences are generally characterised
mens rea —they must prove a physical element (knowledge that a crime has been committed ) (actus reus) and a mental element (mens rea);
So are Vero bans a legal punishment for people who have no knowledge that have committed an infraction ........... just interested to hear opinions
sandypebbles
·2 years agoSo get your legal friend to take on eBay pro bono under the reason rules should’nt apply to you
You can’t say in one breath you swear it is real and then say you can’t determine the authenticity
Thanks for your mates insights though
And yes, eBay can and would ban you
Legal friend or not
eol-products
·2 years agoI think you will find the issue is due to offering worldwide postage on that item that has infringed on another countries Vero bans. In Australia we are allowed to resell what ever we like, but in the US many companies do not allow their brands to be resold. Maybe worth looking into which brands to avoid offering international shipping on.
sugar249
·2 years agoNot sure if you are right about the australian comment.
eol-products
·2 years agoI am not talking about selling counterfeit items as genuine but selling genuine items as genuine. In the US you cannot sell many brands due to the companies not allowing reselling of their products. Hence allowing international postage on these items may get a Vero warning. In Australia I can purchase any item from a business and resell it myself.
sugar249
·2 years agoNot correct.
For some business's you have to be an authorised reseller.
And we have being caught with VERO, and no we werent offering international postage.
Why do you believe VERO doesnt apply in Australia
eol-products
·2 years agoIf a business in Australia tries to stop you reselling their products they are in breach of anti competition laws.
sugar249
·2 years agoSounds like you have the same lawyer friend as OP, hope you enjoy paying for their next BMW
gutterpunkz05
·2 years agoFrom sec 4 of the user agreement.
you agree that, without limiting other remedies, we may limit, suspend or terminate our service and user accounts, prohibit access to the eBay services, delay or remove hosted content, remove, delete, modify or not display listings, apply fees and/or recover our expenses for policy monitoring and enforcement, and/or take technical and legal steps to keep users off the sites if we reasonably consider that any conduct engaged in by such users creates or may create actual or possible legal liabilities, infringes the intellectual property rights of third parties, is inconsistent with the letter or spirit of our policies (for
gutterpunkz05
·2 years agoSales in Australia, must also comply with property rights, does not matter if the owner of such rights is local or overseas, of if the rights fall to a licenced distributor.
eol-products
·2 years agoNo business in Australia can stop you reselling one of their products. Offering that product to other countries will cause issues especially to the US which has many companies that will not allow reselling of their products.
domino-710
·2 years agoNo company can prevent you from selling their product - as long as it's not ' stated ' as NEW.
Anywhere.
domino-710
·2 years agoAnd as long as it ain't FAKE.
gutterpunkz05
·2 years agoeol-products
·2 years agoDo you have an example of a product that cannot be sold by someone else due to not being a licensed seller.
There are certain products that you need a licence to sell like alcohol and some medical equipment but this topic started from the OP trying to sell a hat so am referring to these types of products.
gutterpunkz05
·2 years agoI could probably give you a thousand of the top of my head, but figured you would at least know how to use google. Ever heard of trademarks and copy rights.
Just a couple for you to get your head around. A little electric company, named after a fruit. they created little things to pop in your ears and on top of there trade name, they also registered half a dozen sub names all trade marked and copyrighted. When they were released, all the non authorized little resellers found all there listings removed, until they could figure out how to onsell them without breaching the owners rights.
Try selling new car parts, especially for that one that gets you jumping. You will be shut down quick smart, unless you are authorized.
Brands are big business, and so is protecting them, that is why they pay huge sums to security companies to auto monitor all selling and media platforms, to protect there brands, sales on ebay etc, are not accidently stumbled upon by the tea lady.
Now, slightly different but not much, ever wondered why new car yards are restricted to what makes they can sell.
I recently bought a new car from a dealer I have used for the last 20yrs. They have multiple dealerships, but the make of car I wished to purchase was only available via one of there dealerships, because the rest were not the licenced distributor for that brand in there respective locations. So how does that stack up with your anti competition claim.
eol-products
·2 years agoYou are now getting into franchising agreements which is totally different to what this topic is about.
davewil1964
·2 years agoSpecious argument. The OP is not the manufacturer and is clearly selling a secondhand hat. Which IS permitted in Australia.
davewil1964
·2 years ago" under Australian Law if you didn't know you were Breaking the law there's a probability you couldn't be prosecuted for it "
Under Australian law, ignorance is no excuse.
Your barrister either should be disbarred or you should treat his opinion according to what you paid for it.
gutterpunkz05
·2 years agoNot sure that mens rea applies to breaches of property rights, in any case the standard procedure for an initial breach, is normally a warning (cease and desist) . As you have been warned, you can no longer proffer ignorance as any form of defence.
Note, the item does not have to be counterfeit, to be in breach of property rights.
sugar249
·2 years agoOf course your lawyer wants to prosecute, he can see the dollar signs at your expense. He doesnt care if he wins or looses, just means his kids will go to private school and he gets the latest BMW. All because you believe him.
domino-710
·2 years agoYour ' Barrister ' friend - covered his butt. lol
imastawka
·2 years agoOnly intellectual property rights owners can report eBay listings that infringe on their copyright, trademark, or other intellectual property rights.
The owner of those rights informed ebay of your infraction.
Ebay did not make the decision.
But they have made the decision that if you re-list it you will breach their policies and so have the right to ban you for however long.
Bottom line is - ebay's platform, ebay's rules.
Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) policy | eBay
Don't like it, try selling it elsewhere.
There's no provenance in a third-hand item.
Ignorance holds no water in a court of law AFAIK