Been scammed with empty box claim
Summary: La discusión gira en torno a una supuesta estafa en la que el autor inicial, Anonymous User, afirma haber sido víctima de un engaño relacionado con la entrega de una caja vacía. Hay múltiples participantes involucrados en la discusión, como k1ooo-slr-sales, twyngwyn, *casey*, y springyzone, quienes contribuyen con sus opiniones y posiblemente comparten experiencias similares. Las respuestas sugieren diferentes puntos de vista y reflexiones sobre las medidas a tomar en casos de fraude. A pesar de varias interacciones, la conclusión o solución definitiva sobre la reclamación por la caja vacía no se establece claramente en el hilo.
Sold an expensive item (over $500) on eBay and buyer lodged an "item not received" claim 2 days later saying they received an empty box, they immediately escalated it to eBay to rule on, not giving me a chance to investigate or provide any proof. I spoke to someone on the phone at eBay who basically told me as they lodged it as an "item not received" and not "not as described" and tracking showed received the claim would be closed in my favor.
This happened but then a couple of days later I got an email saying the buyer appealed and eBay has now ruled in their favor and have taken the money out of my account. I contact eBay again and the guy on the phone agreed with me that this was an obvious scam. The buyer has a brand new account and 0 feedback, i have been a member for 24 years and have well over 1000 transactions and 100% positive feedback.
He said he would escalate it and put his name all over it with his opinion that this was a scam but the offline team have emailed me saying they won't be changing their mind that the buyer has provided enough proof that he received an empty box and i need to pay up. They refuse to tell me what proof he has provided (a picture of an empty box?) They didn't even give me a chance to investigate with Australia Post or provide my own proof, they are no longer responding to my emails. The buyer also redirected it from the home address on the order to a Parcel Locker which could be sus.
I will be closing my eBay account if it's this easy to be scammed, this whole ordeal has been ridiculous.
figureholic
·9 months agoI went through the process via eBay chat. They were quite helpful.
figureholic
·9 months agoDid you take a picture of the label? I had this issue before with an overseas buyer. Claiming I sent empty box. I went and submitted my shipping label to eBay showing the weight of the parcel. At the end eBay ruled in favour of me as a seller.
Another way to protect yourself when it comes to selling expensive item is that you take video of showing goods in box, packing in post office and film until the parcel handed over to counter service. This is the most extreme way I could think of.
*casey*
·10 months agoAs well as trying the phone number that twyn's posted, you could also try sending a private message to eBay through one of the following sites.
These are always recommended on the US forums as apparently they're answered by experienced eBay staff, completely different to those you've been dealing with.
https://twitter.com/askebay
https://www.facebook.com/ebay
https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/
"My outrageous fees clearly aren't going to seller protection, there isn't any!"
There's plenty of seller protection for FAKE TRACKING SCAMMERS.
Just ask any victim on any eBay site who's asked for help.
It's extremely hard, often impossible, for them to receive a refund, with eBay taking the scammers' side.
Good , honest buyers and good , honest sellers are leaving eBay regularly as they've had enough of eBay doing absolutely nothing (except supporting them) about all the scams and scammers
twyngwyn
·10 months agoI’ve been thinking about this (as an aside) what might you suggest to fix this quandary?
I can’t come up with anything that would be useful to buyer or seller, sadly. Supposedly, eBay neither……
suggestions?
springyzone
·10 months agoI think the main thing that would help would be to get real people, people properly trained and with a lot of common sense, to properly investigate claims, especially when we're dealing with hundreds of dollars worth of items. Sort of like an ebay policing force.
The second thing that would help would be if ebay insisted on proper evidence in some disputed cases, before deciding either way.
Just a couple of examples I can give from other sites:
I once had some glasses break in an order from Catch. Not all of them, just 2 out of 6, but that wrecked the pack as it was for a gift.
I informed Catch but had to provide several photos, which I did. They then refunded and told me to throw out the broken glassware.
Had I not provided photos though, I doubt I would have got a refund.
2. I bought an airfryer that worked for 10 minutes (also Catch). It is hard to provide a photo of something not working properly, so they provided me with a postage label to return it. However, I did not receive a refund till after they had it back and presumably examined it. Turned out to be a common fault in that model as I later found out after I wrote a review.
3. I returned some garments to a shop. They were unused and still with tags etc. The saleswoman examined those items minutely, front, back and sideways before allowing a refund.
In other words, most places do not automatically refund anyone without evidence of some sort.
There was one exception to this, where I opened a paypal dispute for my sister in law, over 2 items not received (supposedly from aussie site advertised on FB but turned out to be Chinese). In the first claim, she received an automatic refund within a second. Great for her, but I thought it was a bit rough had it been a false claim or an honest seller as they were given no right of reply or chance to upload tracking etc
The reason ebay falls into a bit of a hole is because automation is so much cheaper, and I am not suggesting it should never be used, but there should be more human intervention in many cases. This is one of them. And it is looking as if no one is paying attention to that first ebay rep who wrote in the claim that the seller was being scammed
designers*n*more
·9 months agoEBay ceased using email communication when Covid first hit. You’d think after 5-6 years they’d reinstate email communication 🤪😥
twyngwyn
·10 months agoSome thoughts…..
Report to police, thereby getting a case number, then send that to eBay…
Join Facebook (you have all the buyer’s details) and look them up
good luck!
twyngwyn
·10 months agoalso, you could Google Earth the residence (it might be an empty block, workplace etc) if not, go to Land Titles website, and find out what name is registered
twyngwyn
·10 months agoDo you have free international calls?
twyngwyn
·10 months agoI just called that number, got an answering machine (obviously it’s night time) but you are able to leave a phone number maybe they will ring back ??)
sandypebbles
·10 months agoYes, there could be photos of the buyer with the 'missing' item
Just as people have posted here in the past about buyers buying dresses etc, posting photos of themselves on Facebook wearing said dress and then opening a fake dispute for said dress
twyngwyn
·10 months agoYou could try contacting them on the ‘social pages’, Facebook etc
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoI might have to, they won't speak to me at all just end the chat or call immediately as soon as the case is mentioned.
I don't have a Facebook account but going to need one for Marketplace now anyway
springyzone
·10 months agoI also think it is a disgrace that you are being cut off. They very obviously are underlings following instructions.
It does look as if you are going to have to go outside ebay to lodge a complaint.
It is very worthwhile to post on their facebook page. Keep it simple. The main facts.
Whether they will remove it from the website, I don't know but at least it may stay there for a while. That is, if it gets past first base. Some facebook sites have a moderator where posts are vetted before going online.
You'll find facebook a good site to be on for marketplace but one thing to avoid is random ads you'll see come up on facebook. Lots of them are scam sales sites, so be careful.
*casey*
·10 months agoThis is an absolute disgrace.
Apart from eBay not following their own policy, it should never have come to an appeal from gavrook in the first place.
"eBay who basically told me as they lodged it as an "item not received" and not "not as described" and tracking showed received the claim would be closed in my favor"
This happened but then a couple of days later I got an email saying the buyer appealed and eBay has now ruled in their favor and have taken the money out of my account.
Just like that !
An appeal from a scammer was successful !
gavrook, I wish you good luck in trying to get help with this outside of eBay.
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoThey won't even talk to me anymore, as soon as I click yes when it asks if it's about that item it just says "Sorry, live support's currently unavailable."
imastawka
·10 months agoAs said, the appeal should have been in writing supported by new evidence.
CS staff are notorious for just reading what's on their screen, just to get rid of you asap.
Asking for a supervisor may have helped, but I don't really know.
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoYou're 100% right the appeal needed to be in writing but there was no way to do so without starting the appeal process as they don't give you a contact option until the appeal is started, only the usual chat and phone options. Until the appeal starts there is no way to contact them via email.
Anyway seems I'm blacklisted, as soon as I mention the item number in the online chat the support representative ends the chat immediately, happened multiple times now. VCAT it is
springyzone
·10 months agoI'm convinced you were scammed, for the simple reason that had the package been damaged in transit, the buyer would have noticed and reported it to staff when he picked it up.
And the label on it would show the weight, as you said.
That's why the buyer can't afford to take it back, as the wrapping alone would come to under the registered weight and the first thing the staff would ask is what damage was there to the parcel when he picked it up and why didn't he report it then? It would have to have been torn and obviously empty for something to disappear from it after it was posted.
So okay, you have the label from ebay showing weight but more to the point, you have the parcel redirected by a 3rd party after postage and as others have said, this goes against ebay policy.
You are going to need to contact ebay again and again till you get someone who will listen. Don't threaten to leave ebay, they would just love for it to go away. And stay a member, at least till you get a refund.
Keep on it, polite but hammering their policy.
They don't want to hear about it because to admit a mistake will mean refunding you the $500 and they have already givent he buyer $500 which they can never get back. So it will be $500 out of ebay's coffers, which is why you are having a hard time of it. But keep persisting.
I am even wondering if this is something you could pursue in something like fair claims or at least metion to ebay you may pursue. Only on the basis though that the parcel was redirected and ebay found in the buyer's favour, even though redirection is against their own policy etc
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoThanks I will keep trying but I don't like my chances with them, they just say nothing I can do and hang up. small claims or VCAT will be my next step which I'm very confident of winning. Like you said they won't want to be out $500 as they've already paid the buyer of their own mistake but what's the point in all these fees for seller protection if it's useless? I've sold almost 700 items over almost 24 years, bought probably double that. They would have got tens of thousands in fees from me over the years! On principle I will never use eBay again if they don't refund me, clearly too easy to be scammed.
imastawka
·10 months agoI raised a second appeal yesterday on the grounds that I was never given a chance to respond to the claim before it was decided and provide my own evidence.
These are not grounds for an appeal.
An appeal will only be considered by ebay if there is new evidence provided.
Instead of talking to CS underlings about how you've been hard done by, you should have written your evidence into your appeal.
i.e the weight of the parcel posted and including a photo of such.
Also the fact that they have ignored their own policies and then given them a link for that.
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoIt was over the phone, I advised them I had evidence I wished to submit, I couldn't exactly do that over the phone.
collectocopia
·10 months agoDon’t ever change the address to one that isn’t registered with eBay, I made that mistake years ago, a woman registered in California wanted it sent to China, of course she claimed she never received it and I had no leg to stand on
harvant
·10 months agoDon't RANT.
Thearten,to close your account.
Your membership is your allie.
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoI did that, they said go ahead and provided me the link to cancel it.
davewil1964
·10 months agoA pointless exercise - eBay don't care.
The salient point is that the buyer has breached eBay's MBG and eBay has still sided with them.
Closing an account will not provide any useful resolution.
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoAbsolutely they won't care in the slightest, the 24 years of loyalty they spout at you every time you call doesn't mean anything but it's a matter of principle now. I can't I'm good conscience keep using them and funding them if this is how I can be expected to be treated next time this happens. My outrageous fees clearly aren't going to seller protection, there isn't any!
gutterpunkz05
·10 months agoWalk away if you like, but that wont recover your money. Build extra payment into future sales. About 15yrs ago, I lost close to a grand to an international "buyer", and like you I was fuming and about to give ebay the flick, but I realized if I did, that grand was gone for good.
That grand has now been recovered hundreds of times over.
*casey*
·10 months ago" I spoke to someone on the phone at eBay who basically told me as they lodged it as an "item not received" and not "not as described" and tracking showed received the claim would be closed in my favor"
The eBay Money Back Guarantee shows:
"Not covered - The buyer used third-party freight forwarding or mail redirection"
So surely the same rule should apply here in gavrook's case
gutterpunkz05
·10 months agotwyngwyn
·10 months agoWhy would you redirect after delivery?
gutterpunkz05
·10 months agoPlenty of reasons why, some legitimate, some not, and that is why it is not covered by MBG, other than the exceptions in the policy.
*casey*
·10 months ago"The buyer also redirected it from the home address on the order to a Parcel Locker"
"I will be closing my eBay account if it's this easy to be scammed"
So to clarify, you posted it to the home address provided through ebay and the buyer had it redirected to a parcel locker while it was in transit.
This sounds very much like like a planned scam and yes, it is that easy to be scammed on this site.
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoYes I find this ridiculous I need to send it to the address on the order to be covered by "seller protection" (what seller protection?) but he can just redirect it mid transit and still be covered is crazy
twyngwyn
·10 months agoMail Redirection (as Casey said) is your friend.
Contact eBay and throw their own policy at them.
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoI'll give that a go, unfortunately it seems they have stopped replying to me so I don't know how to speak to someone. The people on the phone claim they can't do anything other than escalate to the offline team, who don't seem to be speaking to me anymore
designers*n*more
·10 months agoPersist with the phone call. Ask to speak to a supervisor and as said, throw their own policy back at them. Tell them it’s not good enough, nor is it acceptable. They may refund you out of their own pocket, (I’ve had similar c@#p happen for item not as described, and they refund me without requiring the buyer to send back. It’s worth a try. Let us know how you go.
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoI raised a second appeal yesterday on the grounds that I was never given a chance to respond to the claim before it was decided and provide my own evidence. I just called up now to get an update I still hadn't heard anything, she told me the offline team had closed my second and final appeal without even contacting me saying it was already decided and they would not be changing their mind. I told her eBay had broken their own policy regarding mail redirection but she didn't care said nothing can be done and hung up on me! Small claims will be my next step I guess
k1ooo-slr-sales
·10 months agohow did you pay for postage?
If you paid at the PO, the receipt should show the weight of the box when posted.
The postage sticker should also show the weight. It is always a good idea to photograph a box once postage sticker has been applied (shows how it is taped up, the postage sticker etc).
On a $500 item, many sellers would take out additional insurance.
If the box was left at an unattended property (safe dropped), ask Australia Post for the photo of the item when left. This may show if the box has been tampered with in transit.
twyngwyn
·10 months agoIt was redirected to a parcel locker. Does anyone know if there are any checks/balances there?
Anonymous User
OP10 months agoI paid through eBay, it shows the weight as 370g. Australia post are refusing to investigate without the buyer returning the packaging to a post office for inspection which I find weird. They are claiming as far as they are concerned it was delivered successfully without any damage. I took out insurance but Auspost are also claiming it doesn't apply because it was delivered successfully as far as they are concerned.
Here is their entire email "According to our tracking records, the parcel was collected from Everton Plaza Parcel Locker on Monday, 03/11/25, and no damage was recorded at that time. If the parcel appears empty or damaged, please advise the receiver to take the parcel to their nearest Australia Post Shop for a damage assessment.
To allow us to investigate, please bring the contents and all packaging to any corporate Australia Post Shop (please note that LPO locations cannot process this enquiry). You can find your nearest Post Shop by visiting:
Our staff will assist you in completing an online damage assessment form. Both the packaging and contents will need to remain at the Post Shop during the investigation. Once we receive all required information, we’ll contact you within 10 business days with the outcome."
davewil1964
·10 months agoAs Casey and Twyngyn have noted, mail redirection explicitly negates the eBay MBG.
Maybe appeal the case using their relevant policies as the basis.