Seller issue
I recently sold a sewing machine to a buyer and clearly showed the accessories that went with it and stated no refunds. I started it at a low price $50 because I wanted to sell it which attracted a lot of bidders. Even though I just wanted a simple pick up, this one particular bidder was dead set on having it shipped to her so I agreed to cooperate with her sending a courier (as expected it was a pain as I had to wait at home for days for them to turn up) . So she gets the machine for an absolute bargain and then downloads a manual which tells her that it should have more attachments. She wants a refund. I go looking for the attachments and find them (I'd forgotten I had them). However I realise that the attachments would have gotten my item a much better price had I listed them. In the meantime she's unpacked the items an tells me how she's spent so much time cleaning it up (it was fine when I sent it). I don't really want it back now as a) I don't really have the time to deal with waiting around for a courier to deliver it back to me and b) it's not really in the same condition anymore as she's unpacked it and been fiddling with it. I offer to send her the extra attachments for $60 incl postage. She says no so I say $50 (still an absolute bargain but it seems nothing is going to make her happy at this stage). I feel as though I've done everything right and bent over backwards to accommodate her but her last messge was pretty angry and she is going to lodge a complaint. Not sure what I've done wrong here?
*sons_n_daughters*
·3 years agoI was going to stay out of this discussion, but have decided to join in.
I see it this way. If the OP has shown photos of what is included, THAT'S ALL THE BUYER IS GETTING. They shouldn't expect anything else, regardless of what came with it as new. The buyer is a putz.
How often have we seen on here, someone buys a phone, and there is no charger. The listing states in capitals there is no charger included, but the buyer somehow thinks there should be, because they didn't read the description, and opens up an INAD......and sadly, sometimes win.
When my mother in law died around 10 years ago, I somehow ended up with her sewing machine and overlocker. I can't even sew a button on (thankfully hubby can, so he does that!). I decided to try and learn how to use the sewing machine (not overly successful), but didn't think I'd need the overlocker so advertised it for sale......as is.....complete with cotton reels all over the top of it, but nothing else.
Several years later I was going through her sewing boxes and found all these other bits for the overlocker. Interestingly, the buyer didn't demand anything else that wasn't in the ad. It was a used item, and they were stoked with what they got.
While some people think the OP is being a d1ck, it's actually they buyer being a d1ck because they didn't read the description. Another who thinks they are getting a brand new item that is in fact used, and listed as such.
springyzone
·3 years agoI'm like you, sons & daughters that I was going to stay out of it because I am a non sewer. I can do a bit of hand sewing, that's it.
My take on it though is that you wouldn't buy a second hand machine on ebay unless you did sew and if you did sew, you'd probably have a close look at the photos in the ad, to see what was included and what condition the machine & bits and pieces looked to be in.
The ad specifically says-accesories as shown-including zipper attachment.
To me, that is always a hint that you're only getting the accessories shown in the ad. You're not necessarily getting every accessory available for that thing, whatever it is. It's a second hand machine so you can't take it for granted that every original extra will be there.
The time to google and find out what this machine originally came with and to ask questions about anything not in the photos was before buying.
I feel for this seller because I remember once my sister & I sold something-I even forget what it was exactly. We took clear photos of it. We never implied there was anything else with it. It was something like a wine decanter? I forget exactly.
Then the buyer later said they expected such and such to come with it. Something totally unrelated (in our minds). My sister just replied and said had it included that, we would have mentioned it and added a photo of it.
We were not intentionally misleading anyone. I don't believe countrygirl was either.
Unfortunately, the waters have been muddied by all the later messages about selling the extra bits.
Personally, I would not refer to those again, just keep any discussion to the original transaction & the fact the ads said accessories as shown and there were several photos of what was included. And that the buyer receievd absolutely everything in the photos. That the pieces she is complaining about as missing were never mentioned or shown in the original ad.
huatao1975
·3 years agoMy 2 cents. Hopefully this is the last post guys. About the 2nd hand market for such items.
Of course we believe when we buy a TV it will come with a stand, a washing machine with pipes, a fridge with baskets / containers etc. Same thing with phone with charger. Laptop with power adapter etc. Everyday mainstream consumer products, this is what we believe. Nothing wrong with it.
But for niche products, such as a sewing machine, or a camera DSLR, a turntable. There is a market for additional parts / components which involve efforts and hence certain costs attributed (these costs can be very high sometimes). These components hold values on their own and they are usually NOT included as part of a sale unless specified. From value perspective, the opposite can also happen when original components hold negative value and owner upgraded / discarded the original components and threw them away. Again the fact they are niche products means owners usually spend more.
Last example for you guys, if we use computers for example.
Alienware Aurora (the egg shaped computers)
Dell will recommend you to buy an Alienware keyboard + mouse as part of the purchase, if not they throw a standard Dell keyboard + mouse for free. So on the box will say either the Alienware keyboard + mouse or standard Dell keyboard + mouse included.
However, when I searched on eBay for used Alienware Aurora, only 1 out of 10 Alienware Aurora listings include the keyboard + mouse. 9 out of 10 do not. Should I download a manual from Dell and demand sellers to send me the keyboard + mouse too? Or should I threaten to file a dispute? Or should I even think about these sellers being dishonest ? Of course not. When you buy a standard PC, a keyboard and mouse is usually included. For an Alienware Aurora, owner usually either keep their Alienware keyboard, or they threw away the original Dell one and got a high standard replacement themselves.
Hopefully this is all. I only spoke about stuff I own and personal experiences. To argue it's absurd to even consider OP should have all original components included. Both from new product and used product perspective. Whether OP choose such arrange on purpose or she forgot to include them at the first place is completely irreverent. She had the right to sell her stuff however she wants. Have a good long weekend guys.
domino-710
·3 years agoOh for heavens sake stick with the sewing machine.
There were numerous pics of what was offered.
End of.
domino-710
·3 years agoLOL - let's hope.
huatao1975
·3 years agoI bought a (relatively high end) Janome sewing machine from a local dealer a few months ago, before that I was looking around in the second hand market a bit.
If the unit OP was selling was around me at the time, I'd had bought it for such a low price and good quality. OP's original sale included the buttonhole foot and a overedge foot, these alone are already quite rare. As most used sewing machine sellers absolutely don't include anything at all, many do not even test the machines. The very same model is still being sold for $325 untested by someone.
What the buyer missed are maybe the zipper foot and a few other things. They were not included in the original listing, so I don't know what makes her think she can simply demand. She can either buy a generic replacement, or a genuine one from Janome, or the lot from OP for discounted prices.
Of course if buyer want to enjoy unboxing and count all the parts / presser feet / bobbins / thread cutter / free scissors, watch manual on a DVD player, she can spend a thousand dollars for a brand new one, like I did.
countrygirldoggy
OP3 years agoThank you to all of those who were helpful with my question.
What no one seemed to pick up (that I found out after some investigation) is that since it as a 'local pick up' item and the buyer arranged her own courier to pick it up, it's not covered by Ebay's MBG. So I have asked Ebay to step in and unless they want to go against their own Terms and Conditions, they will have to find in my favour.
sugar249
·3 years agoYou did it all ok.
Until, you tried to rip them and Ebay off for the extra $60. You should have just left it at thats what I have listed, thats all you get. But instead you try to make extra $'s.
I'm hoping she opens a case and wins.
countrygirldoggy
OP3 years agoNote I didn't resort to emotive words like she did: "disgusting" "your dirt" "will not tolerate your behaviour" "you have no morals", nor was it necessary to say that the item was 'dirty' when it wasn't. I would have been happy to send the accessories her for free but now I just don't want to work it out at all. Frankly I can't see what Ebay can do to me, they have to wait for me to sell something else to deduct it from my payout and given their extortionate fees these days it's not really worth it anyway.
imastawka
·3 years agoShe got exactly what she paid for, and she can't expect accessories that weren't shown or listed. Keep her messages of abusive language for when/ if she opens a case.
And to top it all off, I would list those accessories for $60, but block her from buying.
But that's just me - do what you want.
eol-products
·3 years agoTheres no mention on how the transaction for the extra items would have been processed so could have easily been listed on ebay as far as we know.
countrygirldoggy
OP3 years agoYou can't actually rip someone off unless you misrepresent something. She always had a choice - to buy or not to buy. I would even have been happy to negotiate. If she had done any of her own research she would have realised you can get those same parts on Amazon for $20. I'm not a charity.
sugar249
·3 years agoLOL, And there you go, you openly admit you tried to rip her off. Amazon $20, and you tried to screw her for 60.
countrygirldoggy
OP3 years agoNot sure why I'm replying to someone who obviously has a chip on his/her shoulder but you need to study English and maybe get some therapy since you are so bitter. She never bought anything so she wasn't ripped off. Not sorry because I never took money for anything, I just offered. Actually I offered her $60 INCLUDING postage and she couldn't read either so she thought it was $60 PLUS postage, I then came down to $50 INCLUDING postage, hoping she'd take the hint to negotiate, but like you she had a chip on her shoulder as well.
imastawka
·3 years agoWhatever happened to a seller being able to ask whatever they want for an item?
If a buyer wants it, they'll pay.
sugar249
·3 years agoNothing wrong with that, and in this case the buyer was smarter than the person trying to rip them off. Smart buyer.
Did you really believe the story that they forgot they had the additional attachments, its a typical scam, sell an item, than try to add on the bits that I forgot I had for more than the item was worth.
It's seller like that who give Ebay a bad name.
domino-710
·3 years agoThat is one heck of an accusation.
sugar249
·3 years agoYes I agree it was most likely worded a little strongly. It was more meant to be a warning for others, but I think my wording was not 100%.
My apologies to the OP, I am sure they are a fine upstanding member of Ebay with no adverse intentions.
cam-2793
·3 years agoI'm not entirely convinced that the seller was trying to rip anyone off initially. The buyer seemed very rude in communication with the seller and a lot of people will try to "punish" bad behaviour even when it hurts them too. Especially when there is a strong emotional response.
In this situation both the buyer and the seller feel wronged/victimised and that makes it difficult to get a rational/equitable resolution.
Whatever the outcome I bet both parties will still feel hard done by and learn to be more bitter rather than learning how to reduce the risk of something similar happening in future
domino-710
·3 years agoIt really boils down to what was described in the listing.
The fact there were further accessories is irrelevant - the buyer purchased that which was described.
To expect more - a bit ridiculous.
davewil1964
·3 years agoExcept that on Amazon, they would be be cheap Chinese knockoffs from a Chinese seller with AU or OZ in their user name.
They certainly wouldn't be OEM.
huatao1975
·3 years agoHere is another example for you guys, where OEM parts were stripped away from brand new items. OP's sewing machine included original default foot + 2 exchangeable feet and was accused for being a d*ck , can someone sell brand new machines without any feet at all? Of course they can.
rega planar 3
Turntables are like sewing machines. You have a relatively bulky machine with tiny inter changeable bits which are in contact with some flat material, different bits perform differently, like drills. In case of turntables, the bits are called cartridges and the tiny needles are called stylus.
This turntable's manual states the cartridge is factory fitted, it's absolutely required, and nowhere it mentions it being optional. Of course that makes sense, without a cartridge, the product can NOT make any sound.
However this is how it's sold, everyone is doing it:
thehifishop: Rega Elys 2 cartridge factory fitted (optional)
selby: Rega told them to stop doing that, so they removed it online, but you can still order the turntable without the cartridge by phone, LOL
audiotrends: Note: Cartridge Not Included
sightandsoundgalleria: You can select the "no cartridge" option
addictedtoaudio: Factory fitted Elys2 MM cartridge (optional).
How can a factory fitted part, that's absolutely essential for the product's working, being optional? It just is. Businesses need ways to be competitive. Selling items without certain parts for lower opens the market for buyers to bring their own. Even when the manufacturer discourages it, everyone is still doing it.
So, the OP did was absolutely a standard practice in the industry. There is not a single bit wrong with it.
cam-2793
·3 years agoSure but there is a difference between sewing machines and record players in that the feet of a sewing machine perform about the same regardless of whether the are metal or plastic, although metal usually last longer.
However there is a difference in sound quality between regular factory stylus and diamond or sapphire stylus . Some people have the auditory discernment to tell the difference, some don't. Some people can afford the upgrade, some can't. So it kinda makes sense to sell the stylus separately.
To s&d and springy, I agree the buyer had unrealistic expectations and things got messy from there on.
Will b interesting to see how it all pans out. I hope OP lets us know eBay's decision on the matter.
huatao1975
·3 years agoAny idea which Janome foot is plastic? I am looking at janomesewing.com.au they all seem to be metal. There are a few plastic parts which are not feet but attachments onto metal feet.
Which "regular factory stylus" is not diamond? Even the $43 Audio-Technica ATN95E stylus has black diamond on it. All Rega factory stylus are diamond too (including the cheapest $55 Rega carbon). I have 5 turntables, never heard of any non diamond stylus from any manufacturer. Please let me know, thanks.
cam-2793
·3 years agoNext time you sell something that has attachments - have a squiz around the house to make sure you round up the ones that have gone walkabout - let's face it you can't really use them now!
If the item had been used a lot some people might expect a few things to go missing but you specified barely used so it's reasonable to expect all the bits and bobs.
One way to protect yourself next time is mention it may not have all the pieces/ manual and put as is in the ad.
gutterpunkz05
·3 years agoAs far as I am aware, the fact the item is listed as used, means it is not expected to be in new condition and therefore full accessories are not a given.
As your listing description states that accessories are as shown, your buyer is only entitled to what you have shown, not what was included in the original purchase.
If your buyer opens an not as described case, personally I would argue they have received exactly what they have purchased.
I would not be accepting a return and I would not be offering any discount.
If the buyer leaves neg FB, deal with that when and if it occurs.
countessalmirena
·3 years agoWhat have you done wrong?
Well, your buyer had, I think, the right to expect the attachments that went with the machine – unless you specifically stated in the listing that the attachments which came with the machine were NOT included.
A reasonable person would expect the machine to have all of the bits and pieces that it had originally in the absence of a clear statement to the contrary. The photo of the attachments that you did include doesn’t (in my view) convey that all of the other attachments were not included.
Trying to get what amounts to an extra transaction with that buyer is not on. Were you planning on giving eBay the FVF for the extra $60 you wanted? If not, that’s another issue (fee avoidance).
Were I you, I would send the attachments in a tracked satchel, apologise to the buyer, and cop the postage amount. Others on eBay may have a different view.
The above is purely my view as a buyer, observer, and offerer of opinions.
countrygirldoggy
OP3 years agoFirstly, I didn't realise there were missing attachments when I listed the item.
Secondly, I clearly stated 'attachments as shown' with a photo of said attachments.
Thirdly, if I don't sell something on ebay, they don't get a fee. They already took their cut of my listing.
Fourthly, if she hadn't launched into abuse I would have sent it to her for free. Pays to be polite.
eol-products
·3 years agoI read different, photos show what is included as stated in the listing. Buyer asks for other items that come with it from the factory but where not included or shown in the photos.