topic Re: How do you turn boats around? in Community Spirit

How do you turn boats around?

donnashuggy — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 07:40:47 GMT

Will abbott turn boats like this around?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-13/baby-boy-dies-after-boat-capsizes-near-christmas-island/4818474

Re: How do you turn boats around?

legarlu — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 07:52:02 GMT

It's a pity Indonesia doesn't assist with these rescues as the boat was 105 nautical miles from Indonesia. Indonesia just turns a blind eye but their corrupt officials have their hands out for the money the people smugglers pay them. There is no solution while the people smugglers and the Indonesian government control our boarders.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

catsnknots — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 07:53:16 GMT

well if it had been turned around in Indonesian waters by the Indonesians then it would not have happened...

We give the Indonesians boats, money and man power to help prevent this from happening..

If it were not for Rudd changing the policy in the first place this would not be happening... and we only hear of a small portion of the boats that go missing... many are not reported... he should be ashamed of himself for instigating this policy failure.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

donnashuggy — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 07:58:39 GMT

How do you turn a boat around? Sorry if I sound dumb

Re: How do you turn boats around?

just_me_karen — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:03:11 GMT

That poor little baby boy and his family 😞 It's irksome to see people politicising this sad issue and blame individual politicians. I guess that's a sign of their inability to empathise or maybe their limited world view.

I can't think of any way a boat could be turned around, donna... I doubt there would ever be a situation where "it is safe to do so".

Re: How do you turn boats around?

poddster — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:29:59 GMT

You may as well crucify me now.

So before you start lat me just say this.

I am in no way shape or form in favour of the loss of life.

However The people who knowingly take the risk of a hazardous journey in unseaworthy vessels putting their life and more importantly their familie's lives at risk lose their status of victim and gain a status of stupidity trying to enter a country in an unlawful manner.

There are legal safe channels to seek asylum.

By circumventing the legal channels they are denying the chance of others who use the legal method if a faster placement. The also are are a burden on Australia's finances which could be used in other areas, such as improving the living standards of our homeless people for instance.

In a lot of cases the boats are sabotaged by the occupants in the hopes of getting rescued, and thinking about it the smugglers would prefer that the boats never made in anyway.

In my opinion if all unlawful entrants were flown back to their port of departure the problem would be solved.

In fact a simple rule would do it

No proof of identity .............no entry

Re: How do you turn boats around?

just_me_karen — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:40:28 GMT

😄 thank you Donna 😄

Another point I'd like to make is how appalling it is to see refugees who are already here, complaining about refugees yet to come. They're the worst of the worst, IMO, and it shows a cold, hard soul that they have no empathy for these people.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

sorebuttonfinger — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 09:45:24 GMT

Poddster that is the most sensible solution I have read to date.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

donnashuggy — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 09:54:13 GMT

I think it is because they want their own families prioritized, natural selfishness.

I do agree with poddy to an extent that those who throw away their papers should be sent back but how do you send them back without papers and to where?

Without documents these people really cannot go anywhere.

The trouble lays with Indonesia allowing visas to people who potentially end up on boats throwing away their papers.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

poddster — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:00:48 GMT

No new rules or laws would need to be enacted, they already exist.

It does however require some intestinal fortitude to police those rules and enforce those laws.

The situation that is in force now is as stupid as having rescue teams along an busy highway 2 kilometers apart just in case someone wants to take the risk of crawling to the other side.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

a_dingo_ate_my_chinwagger — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:09:32 GMT

I think the trouble lies with economic and social conditions being so bad in the countries they come from that they're willing to risk all to escape it.

and: a certain percentage see Australia as a land of golden opportunity, and like good Australians, they took a huge gamble to get here.

it's a real problem though, sorting out the opportunists from the genuine refugees.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

poddster — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:10:54 GMT

Yes Donna, Indonesia is at fault. they too should adopt the same strategy........no ID ..... No entry.

The onus should be on the asylum seeker to prove their identity and refugee status and not on Australia to show proof to the contrary.

If you are being persecuted, prove your identity and prove the persecution.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

smithie12 — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:11:45 GMT

Good answer poddster. As much as I sympathise with true refugees, I feel that many f these boat people are not true refugees. Just q jumpers, who know they won't get in so they try to get in the back door.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

poddster — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:17:29 GMT

Economic and social conditions do not qualify for political asylum.

There is already a legal refugee system in place and that requires Identification and background.

Think of the boats as gate crashers to your private function. What would you do?

Re: How do you turn boats around?

donnashuggy — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:17:52 GMT

These people arrive in Indonesia with passports.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

poddster — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:24:04 GMT

If they have passports to get in Donna and their port of origin is Indonesia and can be proven to be so then they have to be accepted back there even if they have destroyed the passports. It than becomes Indonesia's problem.

Send back a few plane loads and watch the number of boats drop.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

donnashuggy — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:27:40 GMT

Indonesia doesn't want them and you cannot fly without documents, even back to your own country.

Re: How do you turn boats around?

poddster — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:36:22 GMT

Donna, so if Indinesia and every other country needs papers to gain entry there how come that we dont have the same requirement?

Oh that right we do have that requirement.

My advice is enforce that law

Re: How do you turn boats around?

meh_too — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 11:03:29 GMT

@donnashuggy wrote:
I think it is because they want their own families prioritized, natural selfishness.

I do agree with poddy to an extent that those who throw away their papers should be sent back but how do you send them back without papers and to where?

Without documents these people really cannot go anywhere.

The trouble lays with Indonesia allowing visas to people who potentially end up on boats throwing away their papers.

Yes they can, they come here - no real questions asked

Re: How do you turn boats around?

freakiness — Sat, 13 Jul 2013 11:28:38 GMT

I don't think they really care if they turn back the boats when safe as long as they don't make it here.

The when safe bit just seems like an add on to stop people attacking for their lack of humanity.

Refugee numbers will drop when global refugee movements slow down.

Until then I don't think there is an easy solution, without sinking them and letting the people drown.