topic Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected? in Community Spirit

Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

j*oono — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:32:22 GMT

I'm really disappointed. Now we are not just the lucky country. We are the up yours country.

Refugees are being turned back to suffer in PNG. Every election I am so sick of the boat refugees being used. Every single time since Howard got in with the kids being thrown into the water to drown it's been the most disgusting use of human life to rule a country.

Shame on you Rudd.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

a_dingo_ate_my_chinwagger — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:45:58 GMT

Refugees are by definiton, seeking a safe refuge. Should a refugee expect the luxury of choice of countries offering such refuge?

Surely a genuine refugee would breathe a sigh of relief at being offered refuge in PNG which is a safe country to live in if one is careful.

If a refugee has an offer of refuge in any other country and refuses it, then any reasonable person might question if the conditions they are fleeing are as bad as is claimed.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

j*oono — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:54:55 GMT

I suppose that I'm just a bit surprised at Labor backing this. Did they or not?

If the next Australian government can deal with the people that have been locked up behind wire fences for a very long time I suppose we can deal with some more.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

a_dingo_ate_my_chinwagger — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 15:29:45 GMT

An alternative to locking them up until their bona fides are established, is to give them temporary protection visas. I can't see why that alternative remains unacceptable to some. Surely it is better than locking people up.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

icyfroth — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:22:59 GMT

Must say I'm surprised at that too! It seems a good alternative and I think it would deter boatloads of ppl who want to come to Australia and nowhere else.

I just read the headline and not the full article. Will Australia fund resettlement of the refugees in PNG?

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

i-need-a-martini — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:38:26 GMT

Has he sold out or is he doing what apparently the majority of Australians want? I dunno.

On the one hand it is a more humane way of approaching the problem than the Oppositions murderous idea of turning back the boats.And they are safe - PNG is part of Kyoto which is more than can be said for Indoneasia. And PNG is going through a resources boom and desparately needs a population boost so it kind of makes sense.

But like you, I am disappointed.

However I don't know if there is any right solution for the issue and there certainly doesn't seem to be one that makes Australians happy.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

i-need-a-martini — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:40:44 GMT

And Joono, the saviour to his policy is that he will increase Australis overall intake of refugees significantly so perhaps it will get a small percentage of others out of camps earlier

I dunno.

I'm in two minds about it.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

catsnknots — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 22:01:37 GMT

@a_dingo_ate_my_chinwagger wrote:
Refugees are by definiton, seeking a safe refuge. Should a refugee expect the luxury of choice of countries offering such refuge?

Surely a genuine refugee would breathe a sigh of relief at being offered refuge in PNG which is a safe country to live in if one is careful.

If a refugee has an offer of refuge in any other country and refuses it, then any reasonable person might question if the conditions they are fleeing are as bad as is claimed.

PNG is not a safe country..... go and have a look at the travel advice.

And this is an ok idea but I think TPV should be included and we shoudl still take people...

Do you know how close PNG is to Australia... I can see them making one last boat trip and arriving at the top end via dingy. PNG's do it often...

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

ladydeburg — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 22:52:30 GMT

This is a political fix, the issue was killing labor. I want to know just how many billions this policy will cost? how much did he offer PNG?

No matter which way you look at it, Rudd broke it, Rudd would have eaten his own children to fix it, otherwise he is was dead walking up to the election.

A lurch to the right??? more like a giant leap, he is not a a conviction politician, he has no core, it's all about the politics.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

katydidthat — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:28:39 GMT

I believe that Australia has a moral and a legal obligation to help asylum seekers.

This new policy is horrendous and horrible and completely short sighted.

http://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=83T

This should take you to Rudd's contact details. I'll be emailing him later.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

tulip*place — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:35:30 GMT

Rudd's new policy will upset the people smuggers as business will slow down for them when the refugees find out that they won't end up in Australia but PNG.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

donnashuggy — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:50:41 GMT

I am in favour, too many are coming via boats and many not seeking asylum for persecution.

Should we have hundreds of thousands each year landing via boat when there are those sitting in camps in Africa that cannot afford the luxury of getting on a boat?

It's an extremely good way to deter them, cruel as it seems something needs to be done.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

1sweetap6v8 — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:55:03 GMT

I dont care either way, Rudds way or the coalitions way , As long as it fixes the problem and I think it will have a good effect either way because like others have said even here , If your really a refugee your not going to care where they put you because saftey is suppose to be your NUMBER 1 goal when fleeing for your life from your own country. Lets not beat around the bush the majority of these people are not genuine and are not coming from a country that is at war civil or other wise, (Iran) so as long as the GENUINE refugees are catered for what is the problem here.? Economic refugees should not be given access over those doing the right thing and appling to immagrate properly. You do realise each time one of these are allowed to stay it is taken from the yearly immagration numbers meaning someone somewhere who did the right thing and applied will have to wait , Now is that fair if those so called que jumpers are not GENUINE.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

1sweetap6v8 — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:59:33 GMT

@a_dingo_ate_my_chinwagger That was what Howard had in place and it worked fine, But Rudds solution is the same in a different way thats all. Im happy that labor have woke up to it but this is there fault to start with. Point is it does not matter which government fixes it just do it.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

katydidthat — Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:12:23 GMT

Shall we have a look at the myth of "economic refugees"?

Let's imagine an Iranian family who want to leave their country and come to Australia for financial reasons.

Do they fly to Indonesia, pay $5,000 per person to get on a leaky boat that may or may not sink on the way? Or, do they simply buy a return plane ticket to Australia and get a tourist visa and outstay their official welcome here, being pretty sure that they won't be put in a detention centre because they FLEW here?

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

donnashuggy — Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:15:18 GMT

The big difference Katy is that they get deported if they get caught and there are many people will give them up.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

1sweetap6v8 — Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:23:19 GMT

Over staying your visa is entirely different to claiming asylum. For a start you will be deported and fined.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

katydidthat — Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:33:18 GMT

The point I'm making is that the majority of people who are desperate enough to get on that leaky boat are truly genuine refugees. Leaving Iran (or wherever), they can't use their real id, because they are on a LIST, or being watched ... so the Indonesia route is their best chance.

There's a much better chance if they just fly in and seek shelter here with friends or family ... if you are NOT a genuine refugee.

And, while Iran may not be in a state of war, like Afghanistan, conditions there are not pretty.

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

i-need-a-martini — Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:35:28 GMT

@katydidthat wrote:
Shall we have a look at the myth of "economic refugees"?

Let's imagine an Iranian family who want to leave their country and come to Australia for financial reasons.

Do they fly to Indonesia, pay $5,000 per person to get on a leaky boat that may or may not sink on the way? Or, do they simply buy a return plane ticket to Australia and get a tourist visa and outstay their official welcome here, being pretty sure that they won't be put in a detention centre because they FLEW here?

I don't understand what point you are trying to make katy?

Re: Kevin Rudd has sold out to get elected?

i-need-a-martini — Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:38:29 GMT

Ok got it,

I don't care if they are economic refugees or fleeing for their lives, they are still people who need to leave their own country to find a better life for themselves.

But absolutely the argument that these are people with money therefore they can't be refugees is a dumb argument because as you say, if money is all it took they could be in the country within a few days via legal means.