topic Re: How far should confidentiality go? in Community Spirit

How far should confidentiality go?

*elizabeths-mum* — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 02:18:14 GMT

Baden Clay case:
George Kilimnios, barrister for Relationships Australia Queensland, said the Family Law Act states that communications between family counsellors and clients are not admissible in the court.

- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/gerard-baden-clay-urges-court-to-allow-family-counsellor-evidence/story-e6frg6nf-1226730769542#sthash.kDz1Niiz.dpuf

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

poddster — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 02:23:28 GMT

I would suggest that George Kilimnios has a closer look at the Family Law Act.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

witches*wol — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 02:24:46 GMT

Interesting... I am currently half way through my Counselling Diploma Course (18 months full time) and we have all learnt that we have to explain to each client that we can only offer conditional confidentiality and one of the conditions is If we are ordered to hand over our files to the court we are legally obligated to do so. We can't refuse a court order.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

catsnknots — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 02:34:30 GMT

If he said he was going to kill the children or another person then authorities are told... if he only talked about harming himself then it can only be discussed with the medical team.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

*elizabeths-mum* — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 03:49:47 GMT

I found it interesting that Relationships Australia are so strict. Anything we write about a client, while confidential, can be submitted to a court. We are always being reminded to keep our notes legible. 🙂

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

freddie*rooster — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 03:59:33 GMT

EM I believe Bayden-Clay through his counsel has asked for the information sort to be released to the Court. So he's obviously confident it is favourable to his case.In this particular case, I can't see why it wouldn't be released in view of the facts, that being, one of the parties is deceased, and the other is accused of murder.

Are preists bound to release information from confessional admissions?

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

*elizabeths-mum* — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:10:10 GMT

I imagined that anything said to a priest was Sacrosanct and have wondered if they have to report child abuse, but was surprised RA was so pedantic even in this instance. (I know nothing about priest confidentiality)

A close family member was attending RA at the same time as doing honours at Uni. Because of the stress involved in her personal situation, she decided to defer her studies a couple of days after the cut off point. The Uni required documentation from the counsellor she had been seeing, in this case RA, which they refused to give because of privacy so she was unable to get a refund of that semesters fees. As a result she was considered to have failed her honours degree and can't continue it later. She gave permission for RA to pass the required information to the Uni.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

freddie*rooster — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:14:19 GMT

Wow RA appear to be a law unto themselves, especially considering your family members case and the permission being granted for the release of their personal information.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

*elizabeths-mum* — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:21:01 GMT

It puzzles me Freddie.

Just googling to find out about Priests, confession and child sexual abuse and with all the child sexual abuse done by priests it's hard to find a straight answer!

They can't report crimes to the police apparently but can encourage the person committing the crime to do so. Pity they can't hold back on giving absolution until that is done.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

toon_town_nutter — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:30:47 GMT

Interesting both his lawyer and the prosecution want the evidence but the counsellors employer says it's inadmissible.

Funny that, it's common in family court cases to subpoena a counsellor.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

cherry*135 — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:31:52 GMT

Marriage counsellor claims privilege in trial

Brisbane judge has reserved his decision on whether a marriage counsellor should have to testify at Gerard Baden-Clay's murder trial.

Baden-Clay is accused of murdering his wife Allison in April last year.

The former real estate agent was in the dock in the Supreme Court today for a pre-trial hearing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-01/marriage-counsellor-claims-privilege-in-murder-trial/4991272?section=qld

I think that is the crux of the matter, the counsellor can claim privilege, but the court can overturn that privilege. The above news story dated 1/10. Has the Brisbane judge made his decision?

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

catsnknots — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:35:11 GMT

@freddie*rooster wrote:
EM I believe Bayden-Clay through his counsel has asked for the information sort to be released to the Court. So he's obviously confident it is favourable to his case.In this particular case, I can't see why it wouldn't be released in view of the facts, that being, one of the parties is deceased, and the other is accused of murder.

Are preists bound to release information from confessional admissions?

If it is his private counseling information that he wants released I would worry that he had long planned this and actually gone to the therapist with an agenda in mind...

If he wants his wife's personal counseling to be released he obviously thinks that she was such a hopeless case that he can use it in forming another theory.

The thing with Relationships Australia is that if there can't be an agreement via their means it often is because one party is being objectionable. This organisation was designed to be an aid for divorce courts in the hope that less families and children would end up going through the horrible experience of a court case. It is not a place that most people will go when they are looking for a personal therapist.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

*elizabeths-mum* — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:36:42 GMT

I didn't realize the link was so old. It will be interesting to see what was or is decided.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

cherry*135 — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:41:28 GMT

Here is some more info, dated 3 Oct. Headline is a bit sensationalised.

Allison and Gerard Baden-Clay counsellor could face contempt for not testifying

Prosecutors want Ms Ritchie [family counsellor] to testify at Baden-Clay's murder trial following the death of his wife, but she has flagged her intention to claim the sessions were privileged.

Justice Glenn Martin said if a decision was made that the counselling sessions were admissible, it was possible Ms Ritchie could be in contempt if she declined to give evidence.

Justice Martin stressed he only raised the issue of contempt in the context of examining all possible outcomes.

He also raised concerns that legal argument over counselling sessions attended by the Baden-Clays could delay the case.

Barrister George Kalimnios, for Relationships Australia, said it was ultimately up to a counsellor to decide on confidentiality.

Prosecutors will file an application for a pre-trial hearing on the issue, and Mr Kalimnios has until September 18 to submit an outline of arguments.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/allison-and-gerard-badenclay-counsellor-could-face-contempt-for-not-testifying/story-fnihsrf2-1226709352880

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

*elizabeths-mum* — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:41:47 GMT

It provides all sorts of relationships counseling though, Freddie, parent/child including developing relationships with step children.
They seem to be faster to get to see as well. At one stage when the doves were fighting in the 'Elizabeth's mum' dovecote, we went on a waiting list for months to see a Uniting Church agency counsellor and they rang one day ( after the crisis was passed) to say they had an appointment suddenly available in 2 hours time. (on a week day in working hours).

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

freddie*rooster — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:46:15 GMT

@catmad*2013 wrote:
@freddie*rooster wrote:
EM I believe Bayden-Clay through his counsel has asked for the information sort to be released to the Court. So he's obviously confident it is favourable to his case.In this particular case, I can't see why it wouldn't be released in view of the facts, that being, one of the parties is deceased, and the other is accused of murder.

Are preists bound to release information from confessional admissions?
If it is his private counseling information that he wants released I would worry that he had long planned this and actually gone to the therapist with an agenda in mind...

If he wants his wife's personal counseling to be released he obviously thinks that she was such a hopeless case that he can use it in forming another theory.

The thing with Relationships Australia is that if there can't be an agreement via their means it often is because one party is being objectionable. This organisation was designed to be an aid for divorce courts in the hope that less families and children would end up going through the horrible experience of a court case. It is not a place that most people will go when they are looking for a personal therapist.

Cat, yes I believe it is private counseling information he has asked to be released, and yes he has demonstrated cunningness throughout this case, so my guess is he believes the contents would be advantageous to his murder case.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

toon_town_nutter — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:47:03 GMT

So one day RA lawyer says they're not admissible and a short time later states confidentiality is up to the individual counsellor. That's a big legislative change made real quick.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

cherry*135 — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:52:14 GMT

Yes, he wouldn't be pushing for it to be released if he didn't think it would suit his agenda. Would he know what was said in Allison's session.. may have done, if she spoke to him about it afterwards.

The counsellor in one of those links, says that she feels people wont go to counsellors if they what they say in the sessions aren't kept confidential.. good point?

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

*elizabeths-mum* — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:52:40 GMT

I wonder if it should be a law that crimes with names and details shouldn't be published in the media until after the court case?
From what I have read, I would assume guilt, yet that goes against the innocent until proven guilty. I get an impression others also are thinking guilty.

Re: How far should confidentiality go?

cherry*135 — Mon, 07 Oct 2013 04:54:55 GMT

Any counsellor can claim privilege toon, which is what this counsellor has done. Only the court can overturn that privilege. As far as I can see (on the net), the Judge hasn't made his decision on this yet. If the judge overturns the privilege, he said in one of those links that the counsellor could be in contempt of court, if she still refuses to give the information.

The media are beating it up a bit.