topic Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded in Community Spirit

Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

icyfroth — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:31:47 GMT

Indonesians need to keep cool

by: Editorial
From: Herald Sun
November 20, 2013 12:00AM

PRIME Minister Tony Abbott has moved quickly to reassure Indonesia that information gathering by Australia poses no threat to a country he regards as one of Australia’s closest friends.

His response to mounting Indonesian anger at the monitoring of the phone conversations of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono after the 2009 bombings of the Marriott and Ritz-Carlton hotels in Jakarta came at a time when our security agencies were desperately trying to track down the terrorists responsible. Seven people were killed in the blasts, including three Australians.

The Indonesian Government is playing to a domestic audience before elections next year. But an overreaction to the intelligence gathering indulged in by most countries, including Indonesia, risks damaging the unique relationship the two countries enjoy.

It should also be remembered that Australia’s actions took place under Labor when Kevin Rudd was prime minister and it is Mr Abbott who has been left to deal with it.

Mr Abbott has preferred to co-operate with Sri Lanka rather than isolate it following its long civil war and is supported by former Labor foreign minister Bob Carr, who was concerned in office at the number of what he called economic refugees fleeing Sri Lanka to Australia.

The point can also be made that asylum seekers genuinely fearing reprisals in Sri Lanka might consider a short voyage to India rather than a risky passage across thousands of kilometres to Australia.

Mr Abbott has got his feet firmly grounded, if the Labor leadership and the opportunistic Greens and some quarters of the media do not.

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Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

9brumbies — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:43:16 GMT

hear,hear, hear totally agree. The labor government did this if found to be true under Kevin Rudd not Mr. Abbott or the liberals.

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

***super_nova*** — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 01:12:27 GMT

@9brumbies wrote:
hear,hear, hear totally agree. The labor government did this if found to be true under Kevin Rudd not Mr. Abbott or the liberals.

Interestingly TA has not blamed it on the previous government. Wonder why? Up till now he has used every opportunity to say something critical of the Labor government.

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

izabsmiling — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 01:23:10 GMT

@9brumbies wrote:
hear,hear, hear totally agree. The labor government did this if found to be true under Kevin Rudd not Mr. Abbott or the liberals.

He is our Prime Minister now.This has come out now.It has gone on for a long time.It was pretty open between Indonesia and Australia during the Howard era

In honouring Australian Sovereignty our PM must acknowledge that as our Country's Currently elected PM he speaks for,represents and has responsibility for those he owes Sovereignty to (us the people of Australia).He has a job description

It's school kid stuff to expect a current PM to pass the responsibility of our current PM over to formerly elected Government/s.

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

polksaladallie — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 01:24:07 GMT

@9brumbies wrote:
hear,hear, hear totally agree. The labor government did this if found to be true under Kevin Rudd not Mr. Abbott or the liberals.

Was it unilateral?

INDONESIA says it doesn't spy on Australia; but it did once, according to a former Indonesian intelligence chief.

In a 2004 interview, retiring Indonesian intelligence chief General Abdullah Mahmud Hendropriyono said his agency tapped Australian civil and military communications and politicians' phone calls. -

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/indonesia-spied-on-australia-in-2004-says-ex-intelligence-chief/story-fn59nm2j-1226763231240

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

lakeland27 — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 01:24:13 GMT

@***super_nova*** wrote:
@9brumbies wrote:
hear,hear, hear totally agree. The labor government did this if found to be true under Kevin Rudd not Mr. Abbott or the liberals.
Interestingly TA has not blamed it on the previous government. Wonder why? Up till now he has used every opportunity to say something critical of the Labor government.

because he knew. because they did it before rudd as alexander downer confirmed, and wilkie did (wilikie worked for the ONA before entering politics) if nobody was gathering intelligence in indonesia in the weeks following the marriot and ritz carlton bombings (3 australians died) some more serious questions would need answering.

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

azureline** — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 01:31:50 GMT

@***super_nova*** wrote:
@9brumbies wrote:
hear,hear, hear totally agree. The labor government did this if found to be true under Kevin Rudd not Mr. Abbott or the liberals.
Interestingly TA has not blamed it on the previous government. Wonder why? Up till now he has used every opportunity to say something critical of the Labor government.

That will be an interesting reveal won't it? It has been uppermost in my mind since he first spoke about it. Why? time will tell but...... he needs to make an apology, the Indonesians expect it.

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

freddie*rooster — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 01:38:49 GMT

It should also be remembered that Australia’s actions took place under Labor when Kevin Rudd was prime minister and it is Mr Abbott who has been left to deal with it.

What would the reaction be if Kevin Rudd undermined Abbott's attempts to deal with this situation by contacting the Indonesian President in an attempt to defuse this situation?

Tony Abbott would have agreed to this spying, there would be no way Kevin Rudd could have gone ahead with this without the opposition being briefed of the situation and approval granted.

This is a security issue, that many countries have done for years, as Indonesia has done themselves. After the Bali bombings, I say keep up the spying and don't rely on these corrupt mob to keep us updated on the possibility of a terrorist attack.

I agree with what Abbott has done this far, and trust he will adopt Shortens advice to handle it in the same way Obama did.

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

izabsmiling — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 02:19:02 GMT

Spying row: Indonesia recalls ambassador from Australia

AP Nov 18, 2013

Earlier this month, the Indonesian government called in the Australian ambassador for an explanation following reports that the Australian Embassy in Jakarta was a hub for Washington's secret electronic data collection program.

A document from Snowden published last month by the German magazine Der Spiegeldescribes a signals intelligence program called "Stateroom" in which US, British, Australian and Canadian embassies house surveillance equipment to collect electronic communications. Those countries, along with New Zealand, have an intelligence-sharing agreement known as "Five Eyes."

The Australian embassy in Jakarta was listed as one of the embassies involved in a report from Australia's Fairfax media, along with Australian embassies in Bangkok, Hanoi, Beijing and Dili in East Timor; and high commissions in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, and Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-11-18/rest-of-world/44201297_1_marty-natalegawa-prime-minister-tony-abbott-defence-signals-directorate

Freddy, It might be harder to keep doing now

What is driving Snowden?

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

spotweldersfriend — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 03:43:33 GMT

Herald-Sun. Lol giggle

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

***super_nova*** — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 05:57:08 GMT

Of-course, everybody is spying on everybody else, and everybody knows that everybody is spying. But I have a feeling that trying to tap 1st lady's private conversations is just a step too far.

And no, TA did not handle the situation well, he insulted the Indonesians yet again, and it will cost us dearly. USA is totally different, they can do anything they want, Australia cannot afford to just say "too bad, get over it".

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

freshwater-2 — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 07:46:22 GMT

I never thought I would utter these words, but......Bring back John Howard.

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

azureline** — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 07:48:35 GMT

what for??

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

acacia_pycnantha — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 07:49:38 GMT

Interestingly TA has not blamed it on the previous government. Wonder why? Up till now he has used every opportunity to say something critical of the Labor government.

Because his govt is was doing it too?

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

i-need-a-martini — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 07:57:30 GMT

The whole thing is getting ridiculous. Now Indonesia has ordered it's people to stop all co-operaion with Australia. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/indonesian-president-sby-orders-end-to-cooperation-over-people-smuggling-20131120-2xvit.html

It's like the expenses scandal - if Abbott had dealt with it swiftly and responsibly instead of denying wrongdoing then it would have faded away into nothing. Instead he defended himself and his ministers (weakly) and took too long to make any changes to the system. Ad then those changes were woefull anyway.

Same with this. he should have dealt with it properly to begin with.. Jesus, he even had a precedence to follow given how recent the US/Germany incident occurred. Here is Obama giving him the political and strategic example to follow.

Instead he behaves like a boofhead/

He is so out of his depth. No idea what the hell he is doing.

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

*ibis — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 08:09:37 GMT

Indonesia has ordered it's people to stop all co-operaion with Australia

does that mean they will stop taking aid money and block all tourists from entering the country?

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ya right

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

freddie*rooster — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 08:22:52 GMT

Indonesia, are playing the bluff game, they need to suck it up just like we did a decade ago when Howard let them off without rebuke for it's own intelligence gathering.

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

freshwater-2 — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 10:22:31 GMT

I was interest when TA referred this week to Indonesia being an 'emerging democracy'.

A nation of how many? 80% plus of them being a certain religion....and 86% of them wanting to introduce Sharia law as the national law.

An emerging democracy? Gimmee a break.

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

spotweldersfriend — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 10:27:06 GMT

For a fair trial 🙂

Re: Mr Abbott Firmly Grounded

freshwater-2 — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 10:32:39 GMT

Oops, I stand corrected. 72% of the muslims in Indonesia want Sharia law.

It was 86% of the Malaysians who wanted Sharia Law.