topic Re: Let's Avoid More Rows! in Community Spirit

Let's Avoid More Rows!

icyfroth — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 10:27:51 GMT

Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono says "precise measures" must be taken to avoid a repeat of the spying which caused a deep rift in relations with Australia.

Dr Yudhoyono on Tuesday met with some of his closest advisers and senior ministers to discuss an official response to a letter from Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

The letter was received on Saturday in response to demands from Jakarta for an explanation over the tapping of the president's phone in 2009.

While Indonesian officials have refused to reveal the contents of the letter, a spokesman for the president said before the high-level meeting at the presidential palace that it was in line with expectations.

Indonesia last week suspended all military co-operation with Australia, as well as co-operation in combating people smuggling, intelligence gathering and anti-terrorism efforts.

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Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

freshwater-2 — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:11:50 GMT

So, does this mean that we increase our live animal export to Indonesia?

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

acacia_pycnantha — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:13:08 GMT

Let them eat cake.

Live animal export is cruel and inhumane.

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

icyfroth — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:26:35 GMT

Why don't we do like NZ, slaugther the cattle onsite and then send it to foreign markets?

Surely that would be the humane thing to do as well as creating jobs for Aussies?

And the humane thing to do would be to save the poor bovines that hideous trip with nothing to look forward to but a cruel end?

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

spotweldersfriend — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:34:19 GMT

Can killing a healthy animal be considered humane?

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

icyfroth — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:36:39 GMT

Are you a vegetarian, Spot?

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

freshwater-2 — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:46:36 GMT

Spot, I don't eat animal flesh. However others do....so the least that can be done is to ensure that the animals do not suffer in any way..

One group that hasn't come under fire with this live export issue is the beef industry. I read this week that Queensland beef farmers were complaining that their live export beasts were too thin to export because of the feed and water shortages. Don't they care about what is waiting for them after that horrendous trip? It seems to me that money is more important than stopping the cruelty.

Yes, we can learn a lesson from NZ.

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

polocross58 — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 00:51:27 GMT

Quote: letter was ' in line with expectations'

What a pantomime when Indonesian ministers have laughingly admitted Indonesia's been spying on us for decades

Yes, I'd like to stop live exports. I'd like us to become self-sufficient. I'd like an Australian government -- ANY party -- to provide incentives to manufacturers prepared to produce our needs right here, in Australia. I'd like to see the millions of shipping containers filled to the brim with mass produced rubbish to be sent from our shores and forced to cart their stuff home

I'd like to see Australians being provided cheap gas and fuel, instead of putting Aussies in the work-house so we can provide ultra-cheap energy to Asia

I'd like to see full employment in Australia, which would happen if Aussies produced their own stuff, earned a wage from producing their own stuff and bought the stuff and to hell with rubbish imports that even the Salvos don't want

Currently, corporations are being provided incentives by Asians to set up slave-factories in Asia. Corporations are creaming in the profits while Aussies are being forced to submit to Centrelink for jobs which don't exist -- farmers are forced to sell the farm because Chemtrail droughts have sent them bankrupt -- allowing Saudis and Asians to buy our irreplaceable faming lands. And the government wastes my time with pretend concerns over posturing third-worlders who've been spying on us at the same time we've been providing them billions (WHY?) and training them on our lands in preparation for their future invasion

Cattle are raised and fattened for slaughter

So are we

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

icyfroth — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 00:54:22 GMT

Thank you Polo, that's an excellent post.

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

fiestas*girl — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 01:51:47 GMT

can i ask a question , not really relevant to this discusion?

why do non meat eaters refer to meat as 'animal flesh'? is it a deliberate attemtp to make the word and habit of eating meat distasteful?

Its a phrase I seem to be hearing a bit of lately (not just this thread, so no offence is directed at anyone here)

when i hear non meat eaters use this phrase i want to slap them and ask if they are deliberately trying to kill my appetite for a great big red juicy peice of beef steak?

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

polocross58 — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 01:56:10 GMT

Thank you, Icy

Please allow me to take this opportunity to commend your detailed response/post in the

Re: Indonesian spies are using Chinese electronic equipment to spy on Aussies' thread

Masterful !

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

icyfroth — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 01:58:52 GMT

@fiestas*girl wrote:
can i ask a question , not really relevant to this discusion?

why do non meat eaters refer to meat as 'animal flesh'? is it a deliberate attemtp to make the word and habit of eating meat distasteful?

Its a phrase I seem to be hearing a bit of lately (not just this thread, so no offence is directed at anyone here)

when i hear non meat eaters use this phrase i want to slap them and ask if they are deliberately trying to kill my appetite for a great big red juicy peice of beef steak?

When next you encounter a non meat eater why not ask them?

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

colic2bullsgirlore — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 02:50:56 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
Why don't we do like NZ, slaugther the cattle onsite and then send it to foreign markets?

Surely that would be the humane thing to do as well as creating jobs for Aussies?

And the humane thing to do would be to save the poor bovines that hideous trip with nothing to look forward to but a cruel end?

99% of all meat imported into Indonesia needs to be alive because

.....wait for it......

99.95% of villages/people do not have refrigeration.

Its that simple. In a previous life I worked for/with arafura freightlines exporting halal slaughtered meat to Brunei. It is nigh on impossible to find cold storage space in Jakarta let alone any smaller cities.

so the indonesians (generally) slaughter their meat needs on a day to day basis

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

colic2bullsgirlore — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 02:59:59 GMT

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-941-ADRENAL%20EXTRACT.aspx?activeIngredientId=941&activeIngredientName=ADRENAL%20EXTRACT

Adrenal extract is a chemical that is made from the adrenal glands of slaughtered cows, pigs, and sheep. Adrenal glands make certain hormones. People use the extract as a medicine. It can be taken by mouth, placed under the tongue (used sublingually) or injected into the veins (given intravenously).

By mouth, adrenal extract is used for low adrenal function, fatigue, stress, lowered resistance to illness, severe allergies, asthma, certain skin conditions such as eczema and psoriasis, and rheumatoid arthritis.

Some people put adrenal extract under the tongue for physical or emotional stress, poor stress tolerance, general fatigue, allergies, autoimmune disorders, depression, pain and swelling (inflammation), low blood pressure, low blood sugar, drug and alcohol withdrawal, and discontinuation of cortisone drugs.

Intravenously, adrenal extract has been used for treating low adrenal function, high levels of potassium in the blood, and ulcerative colitis, and for preventing miscarriage.

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

**meep** — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:01:24 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
Why don't we do like NZ, slaugther the cattle onsite and then send it to foreign markets?

Surely that would be the humane thing to do as well as creating jobs for Aussies?

And the humane thing to do would be to save the poor bovines that hideous trip with nothing to look forward to but a cruel end?

Isn't ritual slaughter one of the main reasons for live exports??

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

colic2bullsgirlore — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:03:16 GMT

insulin anybody?

SECTION: Biological catalysts: the enzymes

...developed by the English biochemist Frederick Sanger in determining the structure of the protein hormone insulin. The first enzyme to have its complete amino acid sequence determined in this way was bovine pancreatic ribonuclease, which has 124 amino acids in its chain and a molecular weight of about 14,000; the enzyme catalyzes the degradation of ribonucleic acid, a substance active in protein...

gotta luv those leather shoes???? dont ya???

animal products are not only eaten

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

colic2bullsgirlore — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:09:13 GMT

Tallow????? what's tallow????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap

Soaps for cleansing are obtained by treating vegetable or animal oils and fats with a strongly alkaline solution. Fats and oils are composed of triglycerides; three molecules of fatty acids are attached to a single molecule of glycerol.[

Most vegetarians use animal products every day in one form or another

.... It's just hard to get them to admit it.............

animal flesh FGS

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

polocross58 — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:14:28 GMT

Yes, it probably is very difficult for vegetarians to admit that they're inadvertently using products derived from animals

As vegetarians opposed to animal cruelty, they're trying to make a difference, trying to spare the suffering and deaths of animals. I commend them for that, don't you ?

I feel sorry for vegetarians who're caught in a consumer world where it's almost impossible not to consume animal products in one form or another. I'm sure that given the choice, they would not do so

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

***super_nova*** — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:18:19 GMT

@polocross58 wrote:
Quote: letter was ' in line with expectations'

What a pantomime when Indonesian ministers have laughingly admitted Indonesia's been spying on us for decades

Yes, I'd like to stop live exports. I'd like us to become self-sufficient. I'd like an Australian government -- ANY party -- to provide incentives to manufacturers prepared to produce our needs right here, in Australia. I'd like to see the millions of shipping containers filled to the brim with mass produced rubbish to be sent from our shores and forced to cart their stuff home

I'd like to see Australians being provided cheap gas and fuel, instead of putting Aussies in the work-house so we can provide ultra-cheap energy to Asia

I'd like to see full employment in Australia, which would happen if Aussies produced their own stuff, earned a wage from producing their own stuff and bought the stuff and to hell with rubbish imports that even the Salvos don't want

Currently, corporations are being provided incentives by Asians to set up slave-factories in Asia. Corporations are creaming in the profits while Aussies are being forced to submit to Centrelink for jobs which don't exist -- farmers are forced to sell the farm because Chemtrail droughts have sent them bankrupt -- allowing Saudis and Asians to buy our irreplaceable faming lands. And the government wastes my time with pretend concerns over posturing third-worlders who've been spying on us at the same time we've been providing them billions (WHY?) and training them on our lands in preparation for their future invasion

Cattle are raised and fattened for slaughter

So are we

that all sounds very attractive, but I wonder if it will also sound as attractive when you realise that if we stop all the imports of the cheap rubbish and try to produce all our consumer goods here we will not be able to afford them, unless we also reduce the wages to to the workers to the slave wages o/s. Not to mention that if we do not buy anything from o/s other countries will not take our exports.

The government has no option but allow foreign investment in farms because plainly there is nobody rich enough to afford those huge stations like Cubby. That was on market for years and years, and there were no local takers.

Re: Let's Avoid More Rows!

polocross58 — Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:27:24 GMT

@polocross58 wrote:
Quote: letter was ' in line with expectations'

What a pantomime when Indonesian ministers have laughingly admitted Indonesia's been spying on us for decades

Yes, I'd like to stop live exports. I'd like us to become self-sufficient. I'd like an Australian government -- ANY party -- to provide incentives to manufacturers prepared to produce our needs right here, in Australia. I'd like to see the millions of shipping containers filled to the brim with mass produced rubbish to be sent from our shores and forced to cart their stuff home

I'd like to see Australians being provided cheap gas and fuel, instead of putting Aussies in the work-house so we can provide ultra-cheap energy to Asia

I'd like to see full employment in Australia, which would happen if Aussies produced their own stuff, earned a wage from producing their own stuff and bought the stuff and to hell with rubbish imports that even the Salvos don't want

Currently, corporations are being provided incentives by Asians to set up slave-factories in Asia. Corporations are creaming in the profits while Aussies are being forced to submit to Centrelink for jobs which don't exist -- farmers are forced to sell the farm because Chemtrail droughts have sent them bankrupt -- allowing Saudis and Asians to buy our irreplaceable faming lands. And the government wastes my time with pretend concerns over posturing third-worlders who've been spying on us at the same time we've been providing them billions (WHY?) and training them on our lands in preparation for their future invasion

Cattle are raised and fattened for slaughter

So are we

---------------------------------------

As with many, I'm of an age to remember when Australia produced most of its own consumer goods. I also remember when there was genuinely full employment -- one to half a percent unemployed

Yes, things were more expensive. People had to save for what they needed. Items were such good quality, they lasted for years, decades in fact

Australia had an enviable quality of life, said to be at or near the top

And despite what you've written, the vast majority of homes had only one income earner -- the man, husband, father. He alone was able to support his family, educate his children in the days of little to no government subsidy -- with enough left over to save and to take the family on holiday at least once a year

Washing machines and ovens etc. were made in Australia, BY Australians, with good Aussie steel.. They lasted twice as long as planned obsolescence in most instances. Some are still running. Compare that with the imported rubbish of today which breaks down after 18 months if you're lucky