topic Re: Wind Farm Fail in Community Spirit

Wind Farm Fail

catsnknots — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:59:08 GMT

So during the heatwave down south when electricity demand was at it's peak wind farms produced almost zero power.

That is why renewable energy is not a good idea for the long term security of our energy supplies.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/wind-fails-test-as-demand-soars/story-e6frgczx-1226804532811

Re: Wind Farm Fail

freakiness — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:09:37 GMT

The winds farms are not the only form of renewable energy. Solar is able to produce and supply more power.

However, the wind farms make a huge difference in keeping the supply of power reliable in this area. We used to have blackouts and brownouts regularly before the wind farm went online. I think we've had one black out in the 5 or so years since.

Re: Wind Farm Fail

i-need-a-martini — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:10:18 GMT

But what about their stored energy?

It's a bit like saying solar energy doesn't work because it's cloudy today.

Re: Wind Farm Fail

catsnknots — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:12:31 GMT

I have not said that renewable is bad... I just said that renewable is not reliable.

Re: Wind Farm Fail

poddster — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:16:24 GMT

Martinus, question, How are you going to store mass energy?

Any ideas?

Re: Wind Farm Fail

pct001wine — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:18:27 GMT

Long term security of power supplies relies on a raft of different and complementary solutions. I can't see where anyone is advocating a single source model of renewable energy.

Any alternate response to old-school brown coal power generators has to be a step in the right direction ... doesn't it ? Even if per kWh it is more "expensive" ? There are so many options - hot rocks, wind, solar, tidal, many in their developmental infancy but at least not fossil fuel-based.

And Fukushima ? No thanks.

Re: Wind Farm Fail

pct001wine — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:20:46 GMT

I did notice that during the heatwave in SA last week that the output from the solar array here at work was significantly down compared to a more "usual" sunny day - well you learn something new every day.

Re: Wind Farm Fail

nero_bolt — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:21:59 GMT

Green power was useless in this heatwave. Praise coal - and the “gold-plating” Gillard attacked

The worst heat often occurs when there is not a breath of wind, which is a problem if you rely on wind power for your airconditioning to survive a heat wave:

WHEN electricity demand peaked at the height of this week’s heatwave in southern Australia, the total power output from the fleet of wind farms across Victoria and South Australia was almost zero...
Figures supplied by the Australian Energy Market Operator show that between 11.30am and 4pm on Wednesday, as demand hit a daily peak of 33029 megawatts nationally, wind’s share of supply fell as low as 0.3 per cent. When the electricity price peaked at $6213 in South Australian on Wednesday in the half-hour to 4pm, wind was contributing 0.7 per cent to total demand.

And solar power remains more a green gesture than a major source of energy:

More than $2 billion of subsidised investment in over 2 million rooftop solar systems contributed less than 5 per cent of peak power demand in Victoria and South Australia during the worst of this week’s heatwave.

This goes straight to the madness of Labor’s crusade against cheap coal-fired power and of the Renewable Energy Target that is still backed by the Abbott Government. Why are we taxing cheap, reliable power and giving handouts to expensive, unreliable power that can’t even power airconditioning in a heatwave?

But this week exposed another fraud of the Left. Julia Gillard as Prime Minister tried to deflect anger at her carbon tax by attacking utilities for their high spending on making our power system able to cope with days of highest demand - typically days like the ones we have just had:

Ms. Gillard pointed her finger at the “gold-plating” of electricity infrastructure being a major driver of price hikes, rather than the carbon price and green initiatives such as supporting the uptake of solar panel systems:

“These energy price rises are well above the cost of the introduction of the carbon price and taking action on climate change. 9c of every dollar in an electricity bill is for the carbon price - and that’s fully compensated - while 51c is for the poles and wires.”

The Prime Minister also pointed out a quarter of all retail electricity costs is spent to meet the costs of peak events that last for a few days a year.

“One sixth of our national electricity networks - $11 billion in infrastructure - caters for peak events that last for barely four days per year.

I thought it astonishing that so many journalists fell for this red herring. Ask yourself: do you begrudge that investment now? Or would you have been happy for the power in Melbourne and Adelaide to have failed this week, at the cost of who knows how many lives of the elderly and frail?

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/andrewbolt/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/green_power_was_useless_in_this_heatwave_praise_coal_and_the_gold_plating_g/

Re: Wind Farm Fail

silverfaun — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:21:50 GMT

In Germany they are looking to not close all their nuclear power stations & going back to coal big time.. The wind turbines are laying broken & rusting all over Deutchland mein herren und herr.

Wind power?......fail, check.

Re: Wind Farm Fail

i-need-a-martini — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:24:27 GMT

@poddster wrote:
Martinus, question, How are you going to store mass energy?

Any ideas?

I think you will find that commercial wind farms store compressed air that are used to generate electricity. How did you think they worked??

Re: Wind Farm Fail

pct001wine — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:33:46 GMT

Turning the renewable energy debate into a Julia Gillard-bashing exercise will help no-one. Unless you haven't noticed, she is no longer the PM. How does regurgitating bolt's utterances help the debate ?

Re: Wind Farm Fail

poddster — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:34:37 GMT

Any idea of the power loss in the conversion process and the reclaimation process and the capacity of the storage facility?

Compressed air is a pretty poor storage medium

Re: Wind Farm Fail

pct001wine — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:35:51 GMT

My rudimentary schoolboy German (which was many years ago, so I could be wrong) taught me that it was "Herren und Damen"

Re: Wind Farm Fail

icyfroth — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:36:31 GMT

There is no way wind farms and solar energy can supply the power that's needed to sustain the amount wer'e currently using, globally.

Re: Wind Farm Fail

silverfaun — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:39:04 GMT

Not counting the mental health issues, bird deaths and visual pollution.

wind turbines?.........massive fail and gobbled up billions in subsidies.

Re: Wind Farm Fail

the_hawk* — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:39:36 GMT

@i-need-a-martini wrote:
@poddster wrote:
Martinus, question, How are you going to store mass energy?

Any ideas?
I think you will find that commercial wind farms store compressed air that are used to generate electricity. How did you think they worked??

store compressed air LOL

Re: Wind Farm Fail

the_hawk* — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:42:19 GMT

@poddster wrote:
Any idea of the power loss in the conversion process and the reclaimation process and the capacity of the storage facility?

Compressed air is a pretty poor storage medium

I didnt see you had already responded to the compressed air idea. I think they were having a touched momment when someone came up with that idea

Re: Wind Farm Fail

the_hawk* — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:43:26 GMT

@pct001wine wrote:
I did notice that during the heatwave in SA last week that the output from the solar array here at work was significantly down compared to a more "usual" sunny day - well you learn something new every day.

Solar efecency decreases as the temp of the pannel increases

Re: Wind Farm Fail

freakiness — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:54:30 GMT

@the_hawk* wrote:
@i-need-a-martini wrote:
@poddster wrote:
Martinus, question, How are you going to store mass energy?

Any ideas?
I think you will find that commercial wind farms store compressed air that are used to generate electricity. How did you think they worked??
store compressed air LOL

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/compressed-air-energy-storage-latest-breakthrough-for-utility-scale-renewables-90133

Re: Wind Farm Fail

***super_nova*** — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:57:36 GMT

Actually, what did fail during this heat wave here in Victoria was the coal powered power station at Loy Yang, which was running at substantially lowered capacity due to breakdown of 1 of the 4 generators, and that was the cause of many blackouts. Fortunately for the fire affected areas it was not particularly windy during the worst days, so naturally the windfarms were not too much use. Pity we do not have more solar panels feeding back into the grid; it would have been help.