topic Re: ABC Fact Check in Community Spirit

ABC Fact Check

boris1gary — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 05:18:13 GMT

Tony Abbott incorrect on asylum seekers breaking Australian law

from the ABC

Re: ABC Fact Check

azureline** — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 05:31:45 GMT

Fact Check also asked the Prime Minister's office what law he says these people were attempting to break. In the absence of any clarification or suggestion of any unrelated criminal acts by the asylum seekers, Fact Check takes him to mean that the people were attempting to break Australian migration law.

As noted in the earlier fact check relating to Mr Morrison's comments, entry into Australia is governed by the Commonwealth Migration Act 1958.

While it is accurate to describe asylum seekers who enter Australia without a valid visa as "unlawful" or even "illegal entrants", it is not a criminal offence to enter Australia without a visa.

Calling someone "unlawful" or an "illegal entrant" is a description of how they entered the country and determines the way authorities process them.

It does not mean they have broken any law.

Arriving without a visa can only result in criminal sanctions if there is some other offence involved such as falsifying a passport or forging a document.

Re: ABC Fact Check

**meep** — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 05:33:51 GMT

Who was he referring to? The Asylum seekers or the crew members? People smuggling is illegal in Australia.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country. (From ABC Fact Check)

Re: ABC Fact Check

kangarooislandleathercraft — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 05:44:45 GMT

ABC Fact Check spends so much time splitting hairs about innuendo that it is a worthless exercise. Definitely not objective.

Re: ABC Fact Check

**meep** — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 05:47:43 GMT

yeah, i know.....just going with the flow.....

Re: ABC Fact Check

boris1gary — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:09:19 GMT

The claim: Tony Abbott says asylum seekers who come to Australia are attempting to break Australian law.
The verdict: Mr Abbott is incorrect. Australia recognises people's right to seek asylum and entering Australia without a valid visa is not a criminal offence.

No hair splitting or innuendo that I can see

Re: ABC Fact Check

boris1gary — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:10:28 GMT

meep - asylum seekers

Re: ABC Fact Check

**meep** — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:14:26 GMT

@boris1gary wrote:
The claim: Tony Abbott says asylum seekers who come to Australia are attempting to break Australian law.
The verdict: Mr Abbott is incorrect. Australia recognises people's right to seek asylum and entering Australia without a valid visa is not a criminal offence.
No hair splitting or innuendo that I can see

What did Tony Abbott actually say?

Re: ABC Fact Check

**meep** — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:15:05 GMT

@boris1gary wrote:
meep - asylum seekers

What did he actually say?

Re: ABC Fact Check

spotweldersfriend — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:19:25 GMT

So were Australian troops who entered Iraq and Afghanistan (where a lot of these asylum seekers come from) breaking any laws?

Re: ABC Fact Check

bluecat*dancing — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:21:22 GMT

PRIME MINISTER: Look, I think people making allegations should be able to produce some evidence. There is no evidence whatsoever to back them up.
QUESTION: The ABC claims they have - with that video and having spoken to them.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, as I said, who do you believe? Do you believe Australian naval personnel or do you believe people who are attempting to break Australian law? I trust Australia’s naval personnel.

Re: ABC Fact Check

spotweldersfriend — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:25:38 GMT

Military personnel are beyond reproach. I still trust Lt.Calley 🙂

Re: ABC Fact Check

boris1gary — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:25:52 GMT

Re: ABC Fact Check

boris1gary — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:30:35 GMT

@spotweldersfriend wrote:
So were Australian troops who entered Iraq and Afghanistan (where a lot of these asylum seekers come from) breaking any laws?

They certainly entered under false pretences - does that count.

Re: ABC Fact Check

i-once-was-bump — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:39:07 GMT

@spotweldersfriend wrote:
Military personnel are beyond reproach. I still trust Lt.Calley 🙂

Without looking it up is that the MaiLai (Melai or something similar) massacre?

He would fit in well at the ABC where they are trying to do everything to trash our relationship with Indonesia.

Re: ABC Fact Check

***super_nova*** — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:43:55 GMT

ABC trashing our relationship with Indonesia?!!!!! Is it the ABC who send the ships into their territory? Is it the ABC who makes Julie and TA to treat the Indonesian government as if they were Autralia's subordinats just waiting more an order?

Re: ABC Fact Check

izabsmiling — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:53:12 GMT

@**meep** wrote:
Who was he referring to? The Asylum seekers or the crew members? People smuggling is illegal in Australia.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country. (From ABC Fact Check)

The claim: Tony Abbott says asylum seekers who come to Australia are attempting to break Australian law.
The verdict: Mr Abbott is incorrect. Australia recognises people's right to seek asylum and entering Australia without a valid visa is not a criminal offence.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-24/tony-abbott-incorrect-on-asylum-seekers-breaking-australian-law/5214802

Who is Mr Abbott talking about?

Fact Check contacted the Prime Minister's office to clarify whether his comment related to asylum seekers or crew members. People smuggling is a criminal offence under Australian law.

No response was received by the time of publication. It is therefore necessary to take a look at the context of the remarks.

It is clear from the exchange during his press conference that Mr Abbott was referring to asylum seekers seeking to enter Australia by boat without a valid visa. He was asked about the ABC report, which referred only to allegations by asylum seekers.

PRIME MINISTER: Look, I think people making allegations should be able to produce some evidence. There is no evidence whatsoever to back them up.
QUESTION: The ABC claims they have - with that video and having spoken to them.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, as I said, who do you believe? Do you believe Australian naval personnel or do you believe people who are attempting to break Australian law? I trust Australia’s naval personnel.

Re: ABC Fact Check

i-once-was-bump — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 07:00:11 GMT

@***super_nova*** wrote:
ABC trashing our relationship with Indonesia?!!!!! Is it the ABC who send the ships into their territory? Is it the ABC who makes Julie and TA to treat the Indonesian government as if they were Autralia's subordinats just waiting more an order?

Re: ABC Fact Check

spotweldersfriend — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 07:01:54 GMT

Calley wouldn't work for the ABC.They're too left wing

Re: ABC Fact Check

polksaladallie — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 07:06:54 GMT

@spotweldersfriend wrote:
Military personnel are beyond reproach. I still trust Lt.Calley 🙂

And Colon Powell?