topic Re: What is worse? in Community Spirit

What is worse?

donnashuggy — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 22:38:50 GMT

Those that overstay their visa that fly in (majority)

Those that arrive by boat.......with the possibily of seeking asylum (unlikely) and sent back.

I generally keep up with what is going on and don't understand the governments fixation with boats when the numbers are the clear minority.

Re: What is worse?

boris1gary — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 22:48:45 GMT

donna, it's obviously to hard to whip up the "public's" hysteria and hatred against people who clearly line up nice and orderly and get on a plane - doesn't really have the same ring to it.

Re: What is worse?

punch*drunk — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 22:52:33 GMT

@boris1gary wrote:
donna, it's obviously to hard to whip up the "public's" hysteria and hatred against people who clearly line up nice and orderly and get on a plane - doesn't really have the same ring to it.

Dont you mean the media? They are the ones that push the boats arrivals issue and people discuss what is reported in the papers. Just like people will discuss anything that makes the news.

Anyone in the country illegally should be removed regardless of their mode of arrival.

Re: What is worse?

purple_haize — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 22:55:22 GMT

I agree with punch, it shouldnt matter how they got here, they are here illegally and she be sent home.

Re: What is worse?

boris1gary — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:13:01 GMT

No I meant what i posted, although the mainstream media certainly plays an enormous role - but it would be a much harder task to get people so hysterical about visa overstayer's - couldn't imply that they are queue jumper's for a start. Couldn't imply that they are somehow taking the place of someone "more deserving", couldn't really use language to dehumanise them either, just wouldn't work.

Re: What is worse?

bluecat*dancing — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:23:58 GMT

Those that over stay their visas are here illegally and should be deported unless they are seeking asylum. To seek asylum is NOT illegal in this country.

Re: What is worse?

boris1gary — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:28:51 GMT

@punch*drunk wrote:
@boris1gary wrote:
donna, it's obviously to hard to whip up the "public's" hysteria and hatred against people who clearly line up nice and orderly and get on a plane - doesn't really have the same ring to it.
Dont you mean the media? They are the ones that push the boats arrivals issue and people discuss what is reported in the papers. Just like people will discuss anything that makes the news.
Anyone in the country illegally should be removed regardless of their mode of arrival.

and as for "people discuss what is reported in the papers"

I have found that "discuss" not really, more like believe whatever is written in the paper (often the telegraph) even when all evidence proves otherwise. Then if they see something say on the ABC - all of a sudden it's = oh well everyone knows the ABC is full of left wing bias, have never heard these same people question the telegraph, privately owned TV stations or privately owned radio stations - oh no of course they all only report THE TRUTH.

Re: What is worse?

the_hawk* — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:31:01 GMT

@boris1gary wrote:
No I meant what i posted, although the mainstream media certainly plays an enormous role - but it would be a much harder task to get people so hysterical about visa overstayer's - couldn't imply that they are queue jumper's for a start. Couldn't imply that they are somehow taking the place of someone "more deserving", couldn't really use language to dehumanise them either, just wouldn't work.

add to that those that flew in supposedly had valid papers and entry visa's and posed no threat to national security as opposed to those that attempted to sneak in after destroying their identity paper so they couldn't be identified.

I can see a small difference between the two groups.

Now they just have to track down the over stayers and send them back with a noyte on their papers to never return

Re: What is worse?

the_hawk* — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:34:38 GMT

oh no of course they all only report THE TRUTH.

Since nearly all media is owned by Murdoch and he tows what ever line on spin his mates in the liberal party tell him to print

truth doesnt even come into it

Re: What is worse?

lloydslights — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:36:19 GMT

"News reporting" is almost a thing of the past. If there is no news, make news. Mostly opinions, not actual reporting.

Bad "news" sells more than the "feel good" news. It is supposed to make us feel good about ourselves and our lives; about how "lucky" we are compared to those in the "news".

And of course, politically, diverting the attention from other agenda which sneaks under the radar.

Media releases from the political arena, ie "GST to increase to 20%" headline. The public moan and groan, up in arms, rallies, marches, etc. So the govt puts it up to "only 15%" and the people feel that they've won. However, are still paying more than before.

DEB

Re: What is worse?

boris1gary — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:52:10 GMT

While I am an atheist i kind of like this..............i understand that all sorts of interpretations can be made from stuff in the bible, but the below to me is apt when talking about asylum seekers

yes I know we are not in Egypt...................

Leviticus 19:33-34

English Standard Version (ESV)

33 “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. 34 You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Re: What is worse?

bluecat*dancing — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:55:26 GMT

LOL. I'm an atheist, too. It seems that atheists have more christian morals than the so-called christians have.

Re: What is worse?

crystal-gems — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 04:51:52 GMT

Those that over stay their visas are here illegally and should be deported unless they are seeking asylum. To seek asylum is NOT illegal in this country.

Yes, seeking asylum is not against the law. However.......

Until asylum seekers are documented as genuine refugees they are here illegally..

if they are found not to be genuine refugees they are here illegally.

Those who are found to be genuine refugees are afforded all the protection and assistance we can give.

Re: What is worse?

cherry*135 — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:18:27 GMT

.. don't understand the governments fixation with boats when the numbers are the clear minority.

Boat arrivals in Australia

2008 - 7 boats, 161 passengers

2010 - 134 boats, 6555 passengers

2013 - 300 boats, 20 587 passengers. (source: news.com.au, rest are from aph.gov)

Nothing to be concerned about?

How many people enter Australia by plane without a passport, or a visa if one is required by Aust for people from their country?

Re: What is worse?

donnashuggy — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:38:12 GMT

I don't think it is possible to come via plane without a passport or visa lol, kiwis used to be able to, not sure if they still are

Re: What is worse?

donnashuggy — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:41:29 GMT

I think you will find that the numbers that come via boat is insignificant to those that come here on holiday visa or similar and overstay their visa.

Re: What is worse?

bluecat*dancing — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:44:31 GMT

Nope, sorry, while they are waiting for their claims to be processed they are still seeking asylum, therefore, quite legal.

Re: What is worse?

cherry*135 — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:50:55 GMT

Maybe, maybe not re number of people arrivng by plane outnumbering boat arrival passengers.. but the plane arrivals do have a passport and visa (if required) when they enter this country.. the majority of boat people don't.

Immigration Dept, AU

In the 2009–10 financial year, it was estimated that approximately 15 800 people overstayed their visa. This compares with about 4.5 million temporary entrants over the same period—an overstayer rate of less than half a per cent.

Many people who are recorded as overstayers are simply extending their stay in Australia by a few days or weeks, and leave of their own accord within a short period. Others overstay for a longer period, for example, out of a desire to live and work in Australia.

Re: What is worse?

*mrgrizz* — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:55:25 GMT

@am*3 wrote:
Maybe, maybe not re number of people arrivng by plane outnumbering boat arrival passengers.. but the plane arrivals do have a passport and visa (if required) when they enter this country.. the majority of boat people don't.

Immigration Dept, AU

In the 2009–10 financial year, it was estimated that approximately 15 800 people overstayed their visa. This compares with about 4.5 million temporary entrants over the same period—an overstayer rate of less than half a per cent.

Many people who are recorded as overstayers are simply extending their stay in Australia by a few days or weeks, and leave of their own accord within a short period. Others overstay for a longer period, for example, out of a desire to live and work in Australia.

that 15800 is the total number who over stayed. not the number who have vanished into our neighbour hoods.

that number includes even those who have only stayed 1 day to long

Re: What is worse?

cherry*135 — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 06:02:20 GMT

Oct 2012

Between July last year [2011] and June this year [2012], about 19,540 people were found to have stayed in Australia for longer than their visa allowed -- more than double the number of asylum-seekers who arrived in the country by boat during that period.

The Australian

2012 - 17 202 boat passenger arrivals (Govt statistic)

2013 - 20 587 passenger arrivals (source news.com.au)

As mentioned above all overstayers are counted in the overstayer statistics even if they leave the country a day, a week, or a month etc later than the date their visa expired.