topic I thought.... in Community Spirit

I thought....

catsnknots — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 22:06:25 GMT

That Kevin Rudd was the saviour of the GFC and that he and Swan were so good that they set Australia up for the future.

How come we are struggling so much right now if they did such a sterling job?

Did they get it wrong?

Did they go too far with that second stimulus package that was the only stimulus package that the coalition questioned?

Did they really think far enough ahead to help steer Australia in the right direction and if so then why are so many businesses going to the wall?

Re: I thought....

the_hawk* — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 22:49:15 GMT

@catsnknots wrote:
That Kevin Rudd was the saviour of the GFC and that he and Swan were so good that they set Australia up for the future.

How come we are struggling so much right now if they did such a sterling job?

Did they get it wrong?

Did they go too far with that second stimulus package that was the only stimulus package that the coalition questioned?

Did they really think far enough ahead to help steer Australia in the right direction and if so then why are so many businesses going to the wall?

I was surprised the stimulus worked so well and cusioned the fall out as much as it did.

The issue came about to start with by people spending more than they had by using borrowed money and some banks and even goverments invested in high risk high return investments that were built like a pack of cards, when one failed the whole thing came down mainly due to investments in the US. even our council got caught up in these sceams of borrowing localy and investing in the US at returns that were much higher, the old saying if it sounds to good to be true, then it probably isnt was ignored, they believed the spin and were greedy, now we are paying for it with some of the highest rates in the country.

Australia had a huge amount of personal debt and still has, and now wages for the average working class person (not average wage for Johns benifit) has fallen due to many not haveing full time jobs (38 hours a week) they dont have surplas money to spend, many house prices have dropped or not risen in working class areas and banks wanting people to have equety in their homes will no longer re mortage or allow further redraws so money is tight.

Many are still paying what they own yet can no longer borrow more, and as more companies fail this trend will continue because the people will not have money to spend until we are faced with a depresion like never seen before.

Re: I thought....

i-need-a-martini — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 02:19:05 GMT

Who is struggling?

What businesses are going to the wall?

Re: I thought....

lakeland27 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 02:22:38 GMT

imagine how bad it would be if the then opposition got their way. they opposed stimulus.

Re: I thought....

i-need-a-martini — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 02:35:28 GMT

Well have a look at what Hockey has just announced today. Cuts to medicare, education and health are imminent (is that the right word?).

The irony is that I was listening to Christine Lagarde on Q&A last night saying the complete opposite. So couldn't believe what I read in the paper today. Obviously Hockey was not watching.

Re: I thought....

lakeland27 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 02:52:39 GMT

yes, austerity has failed everywhere. the ideaology behind this governments policies spell disaster and failure too.

but being an almost religious article of faith for the right they'll plunge straight in, the only restraint is the publics dislike of the policies such as the revitalised worknochoices. at least it will be brief, but its going to cost a lot to restore the country to health again.

Re: I thought....

boris1gary — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 02:56:37 GMT

The Age today,

The Treasurer flagged that other programs, including the aged pension for people over 65, were also overdue for review and would have to be examined.

The pension was introduced in the 1950s when life expectancy was 55, but Mr Hockey said costs had ballooned with the average lifespan stretching today to 85.

Oh dear, just how many lies were there?

Re: I thought....

lakeland27 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:00:49 GMT

hockey is in talks with philip nitschke i hear

Re: I thought....

freakiness — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:04:49 GMT

this is interesting.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/government-pushed-spc-to-slash-wages-in-return-for-bailout-union-officials-say-20140219-3314e.html

The Abbott government pressed SPC Ardmona to slash pay for workers by as much as 40 per cent under a radical bailout plan for the food processor.

Three union officials told Fairfax Media they had meetings with SPC Ardmona managing director Peter Kelly before Christmas in which Mr Kelly said he was being pressured by the Abbott government to put workers on the award if the company wanted a $25 million subsidy.

Moving workers on to the award would have dramatically cut living standards for hundreds of people at the Shepparton plant, with pay cuts of $20,000 to $30,000 a year for many. Other sources involved in the restructure have separately confirmed to Fairfax Media the Abbott government's pay push at SPC Ardmona. Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane refused to directly answer questions on the issue.

The government has been pushing struggling companies such as Toyota and SPC Ardmona to overhaul their workplace agreements as it has repeatedly warned about high wages, which has become a key political issue. That is despite the wage price index growing at just 2.6 per cent last year, the slowest growth in the 16-year history of the series.

Mr Macfarlane said on Wednesday costs had to fall. ''I do want to reduce labour costs but it's not necessarily reducing wages,'' he said.

Re: I thought....

lakeland27 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:06:42 GMT

i heard one of them interviewed yesterday, it sounds like they tried to pull the same thing at toyota as well.

Re: I thought....

the_great_she_elephant — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:28:11 GMT

@catsnknots wrote:
That Kevin Rudd was the saviour of the GFC and that he and Swan were so good that they set Australia up for the future.

How come we are struggling so much right now if they did such a sterling job?

Did they get it wrong?

Did they go too far with that second stimulus package that was the only stimulus package that the coalition questioned?

Did they really think far enough ahead to help steer Australia in the right direction and if so then why are so many businesses going to the wall?

To get accurate answers to those questions you'd need to ask an economist. The comments I have read from economists all seem to agree it was exactly the right thing to do and it did indeed save Australia from the financial horrors that befell so many other countries. Of course it's a while since I've seen any informed discussion on the subject so I suppose it's possible they may have changed their minds in the meantime. if you can find any recent non political views on the subejct I'd be interested to read them.

Re: I thought....

boris1gary — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:50:08 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
@catsnknots wrote:
That Kevin Rudd was the saviour of the GFC and that he and Swan were so good that they set Australia up for the future.

How come we are struggling so much right now if they did such a sterling job?

Did they get it wrong?

Did they go too far with that second stimulus package that was the only stimulus package that the coalition questioned?

Did they really think far enough ahead to help steer Australia in the right direction and if so then why are so many businesses going to the wall?
To get accurate answers to those questions you'd need to ask an economist. The comments I have read from economists all seem to agree it was exactly the right thing to do and it did indeed save Australia from the financial horrors that befell so many other countries. Of course it's a while since I've seen any informed discussion on the subject so I suppose it's possible they may have changed their minds in the meantime. if you can find any recent non political views on the subejct I'd be interested to read them.

Ele, the only place anyone can read that our previous govts handling of the GFC was wrong will be old copies of the Tele or LNP election material, even the IMF agrees the ALP govt did the right thing at the right time. One of the problems now of course is the stupidity of the LNPs 4 years of talking down our economy, creating the myth of the "Budget Crisis" is all coming home to roost now and people aren't willing to spend. The Prime Minister for Unemployment did say openly that he would do anything to win the last election and clearly its one thing he did not lie about.

Re: I thought....

polksaladallie — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:59:27 GMT

@lakeland27 wrote:
hockey is in talks with philip nitschke i hear

The guvmnt will have to pay for the goods though, but I guess it would be cheaper than five or ten years of pension. Would Hockey be charged with aiding and abetting?

Re: I thought....

polocross58 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 04:08:46 GMT

Labor raided the Reserve to the tune of 8 billion as NLP discovered when they were able to get a look at the books

Swan had been warned not to raid the Reserve, but he did, leaving most of us exposed

First priority for NLP was to get that 8 plus billion back where it belonged

Then we had Labor raiding private bank accounts. They gave themselves permission over the Christmas holidays. Again, Labor and Swan were warned by the banks not to raid people's private bank accounts, but they did anyway. All they managed to grab was $109 million dollars. That's how broke Labor had rendered this land

Labor squandered the safety-net they inherited

They borrowed more and more

They raided the Reserve and people's private bank accounts

Don't think there was anyone as relieved as Labor when they lost the last general election. They'd stolen and borrowed to the hilt

Once again, NLP has to claw back money inch by inch to try to put Australia in the black

Re: I thought....

lakeland27 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 04:10:48 GMT

he'll be sure to do it through a 3rd party polks, he'll cover his considerable bleep. eugenic joe hockensian.

Re: I thought....

lakeland27 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 04:12:40 GMT

@polocross58 wrote:
.

Labor raided the Reserve to the tune of 8 billion as NLP discovered when they were able to get a look at the books

Swan had been warned not to raid the Reserve, but he did, leaving most of us exposed

First priority for NLP was to get that 8 plus billion back where it belonged

Then we had Labor raiding private bank accounts. They gave themselves permission over the Christmas holidays. Again, Labor and Swan were warned by the banks not to raid people's private bank accounts, but they did anyway. All they managed to grab was $109 million dollars. That's how broke Labor had rendered this land

Labor squandered the safety-net they inherited

They borrowed more and more

They raided the Reserve and people's private bank accounts

Don't think there was anyone as relieved as Labor when they lost the last general election. They'd stolen and borrowed to the hilt

Once again, NLP has to claw back money inch by inch to try to put Australia in the black

pfftt. it will be us trying to claw our way out of the hole they are digging, the collective grave of right wing stupidity.

Re: I thought....

polocross58 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 04:22:21 GMT

Quote:

' Treasurer Wayne Swan reneged on an in-principle agreement not to raid the Reserve Bank of Australia’s emergency fund to deliver his now-abandoned budget surplus this year.' end quote

http://www.afr.com/p/national/rba_emergency_fund_at_risk_after_VQ6HFtzqu0dg5togJgskTI

Quote:

' Treasurer Wayne Swan rejected advice and warnings from Treasury officials, and reneged on an “in-principle agreement” that was repeatedly recorded by Treasury, when he decided to strip $500 million out of the RBA to save his 2012-13 budget surplus goal, new documents reveal' end quote

http://www.afr.com/p/national/treasury_distances_itself_from_swan_ad8szgSVMM5AQWuMvMsmXP

Quote:

WAYNE Swan's order forcing the Reserve Bank to pay the government a $500 million dividend last year overturned his earlier agreement that the bank should use its profits to rebuild badly depleted reserves.

The Treasurer demanded the dividend in the face of pleas from governor Glenn Stevens that it would leave the bank "significantly" short of capital.' end quote

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/wayne-swan-went-back-on-word-in-taking-500m-from-rba/story-fn59nsif-1226618617679#

Re: I thought....

polocross58 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 04:26:41 GMT

Quote:

September 03, 2012

Labor to scrape the debt ceiling

GOVERNMENT borrowings subject to Australia's debt ceiling will soar to $249.7 billion within four years, it has been revealed, putting new pressure on Julia Gillard to avoid a further blowout in debt as the resource boom peaks.

While the government insisted in the May budget that commonwealth bonds subject to the cap would be less than $250bn at the end of every financial year over four-year forward estimates, the government's debt agency has revealed it expects to meet that target with just $300 million to spare at June 30, 2016.' end quote

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/labor-to-scrape-the-debt-ceiling/story-fn59nsif-1226463478700#

Re: I thought....

polocross58 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 04:37:06 GMT

Quote:

December 18, 2013

Nation's debt could near $700bn

THE budget's haemorrhaging bottom line will push gross public debt to almost $700 billion over the next decade, setting Australia up to become one of the biggest borrowers in the world.

Joe Hockey's updated projections anticipate a rise in the federal government's gross financial liabilities to $460bn over the next four years before surging to $666.7bn - or 26 per cent of GDP - some time in the next decade.

"We have inherited from the Labor Party budget deficits totalling $123bn over the next four years and unless we take action, the budget will be in deficit for at least a decade," the Treasurer said yesterday.

He blamed the previous government for the deterioration in the nation's finances over the past four months.' end quote

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/nations-debt-could-near-700bn/story-fn59nsif-1226785370992#

Re: I thought....

polocross58 — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 04:55:08 GMT

Quote:

March 27, 2013

Julia Gillard to leave Australians in $165 billion dollars worth of debt this term alone

GILLARD Government debt levels are forecast to blow out by 80 per cent to $165 billion in this term alone - equal to more than $14,000 for every working Australian.

Analysis of Budget documents reveals that between the 2010 election and Federal Treasury's update in October last year, the 2012-13 net debt estimate rose $54 billion to $144 billion.

With Wayne Swan having junked the Government's commitment to a surplus this financial year, Bank of America Merrill Lynch now forecasts Treasury will raise the estimate by a further $21 billion in the May budget.

Monash University Professor of Business and Economics Jakob Madsen said the gross debt rise was "disturbing".

"It's a dangerous trend and it's at the wrong time. It's completely unnecessary to hand out left, right and centre and the way they do it is not very clever," Professor Madsen said.

Business Council of Australia CEO Jennifer Westacott said spending had grown "out of step" with revenue.

"If that doesn't change we are going to have serious public debt problem," Ms Westacott said.

http://www.news.com.au/national/julia-gillard-to-leave-australians-in-165-billion-dollars-worth-of-debt-this-term-alone/story-fncynjr2-1226607170108