topic Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army..... in Community Spirit

Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

spotweldersfriend — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 12:52:03 GMT

...to be paid as little as half the minimum wage.

http://m.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbotts-green-army-will-be-paid-half-the-minimum-wage-20140301-33st7.html

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

just_me_karen — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 12:57:24 GMT

And not covered by federal OHS or workers comp.

Let's hope none of them get hurt.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

boris1gary — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 22:26:48 GMT

@spotweldersfriend wrote:
...to be paid as little as half the minimum wage.

http://m.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbotts-green-army-will-be-paid-half-the-minimum-wage-20140301-33st7.html

yes and this "green army" will be replacing jobs that are paid properly. Abbott will probably add these "green army" numbers to his 1million jobs promise. Is this "green army" Abbotts answer to climate change -

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

punch*drunk — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 22:51:33 GMT

I dont understand........ The national minimum wage is $16.37 per hour for adults 21 and over, 30 hours at that rate is about $491.....17 year old juniors/trainees rate is $9.46 an hour, 30 hours is about $280.

Are people expecting they should be paid for a full week when only doing part time hours? Or do you think they should be paid above the award rate per hour?

Perhaps I'm missing something?

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

boris1gary — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 23:01:41 GMT

@punch*drunk wrote:
I dont understand........ The national minimum wage is $16.37 per hour for adults 21 and over, 30 hours at that rate is about $491.....17 year old juniors/trainees rate is $9.46 an hour, 30 hours is about $280.

Are people expecting they should be paid for a full week when only doing part time hours? Or do you think they should be paid above the award rate per hour?

Perhaps I'm missing something?

perhaps?

A ''green army'' of 15,000 young people will be paid as little as half the minimum wage, as fresh details emerge of the federal government's plan to create Australia's largest environmental workforce.

Young people who fill the green army's ranks will be paid about half the minimum wage, earning between $304.20 and $493.70 a week.

The wages compare with $622.20 a week for the minimum wage and the basic rate of $250.50 a week for a single person getting Newstart, or the dole. The scheme is modelled on John Howard's Green Corps, and will be an alternative to work-for-the-dole programs.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

punch*drunk — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 23:08:11 GMT

@boris1gary wrote:
@punch*drunk wrote:
I dont understand........ The national minimum wage is $16.37 per hour for adults 21 and over, 30 hours at that rate is about $491.....17 year old juniors/trainees rate is $9.46 an hour, 30 hours is about $280.

Are people expecting they should be paid for a full week when only doing part time hours? Or do you think they should be paid above the award rate per hour?

Perhaps I'm missing something?

perhaps?

A ''green army'' of 15,000 young people will be paid as little as half the minimum wage, as fresh details emerge of the federal government's plan to create Australia's largest environmental workforce.
Young people who fill the green army's ranks will be paid about half the minimum wage, earning between $304.20 and $493.70 a week.
The wages compare with $622.20 a week for the minimum wage and the basic rate of $250.50 a week for a single person getting Newstart, or the dole. The scheme is modelled on John Howard's Green Corps, and will be an alternative to work-for-the-dole programs.

I must still be missing the point. The figures quoted up there ($304.20 & 493.70) are pretty much exactly 30 hours at the standard minumum wage for the relevant ages. The lower amount being 17 year olds, the higher for adults.

Do people expect the 17 year olds working 30 hours to earn the same as a 21 year old working 38 hours? ie $622.20

Or is the standard working week 30 hours now?

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

punch*drunk — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 23:09:43 GMT

No, standard working week is still 38 hours, i just checked.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

boris1gary — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 23:19:06 GMT

@punch*drunk wrote:
@boris1gary wrote:
@punch*drunk wrote:
I dont understand........ The national minimum wage is $16.37 per hour for adults 21 and over, 30 hours at that rate is about $491.....17 year old juniors/trainees rate is $9.46 an hour, 30 hours is about $280.

Are people expecting they should be paid for a full week when only doing part time hours? Or do you think they should be paid above the award rate per hour?

Perhaps I'm missing something?

perhaps?

A ''green army'' of 15,000 young people will be paid as little as half the minimum wage, as fresh details emerge of the federal government's plan to create Australia's largest environmental workforce.
Young people who fill the green army's ranks will be paid about half the minimum wage, earning between $304.20 and $493.70 a week.
The wages compare with $622.20 a week for the minimum wage and the basic rate of $250.50 a week for a single person getting Newstart, or the dole. The scheme is modelled on John Howard's Green Corps, and will be an alternative to work-for-the-dole programs.
I must still be missing the point. The figures quoted up there ($304.20 & 493.70) are pretty much exactly 30 hours at the standard minumum wage for the relevant ages. The lower amount being 17 year olds, the higher for adults.

Do people expect the 17 year olds working 30 hours to earn the same as a 21 year old working 38 hours? ie $622.20

Or is the standard working week 30 hours now?

Tony Abbott may be slashing environmental programs anywhere he can find them – including cuts to environmental legal centres, cuts to energy efficiency programs, and cuts to the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, not to mention his plans to abolish the profitable Clean Energy Finance Corporation and the emissions trading system.

But we do have to give him credit with following through on one positive environmental project.

As plans to revive compulsory work for the dole surface, the Abbott government has confirmed that it’s going ahead with its “Green Army” plan to provide opportunities for 17-24-year-olds to gain training and experience in environment and conservation jobs.

Up to 15,000 young Australians interested in revegetation of local reserves, erecting signage in parks, pulling weeds and restoring foreshores will be able to take part in the Abbott Government's national Green Army project.

The Green Army is only open to 17-24 year olds, including school leavers, gap-year students and those on Newstart.

“Designed with Gen Y in mind, participants will work six hours a day, five days a week, take morning and afternoon rests of at least 15 minutes and a lunch break of at least an hour.”

“Participants will be paid an allowance of between $10.14 and $16.45 an hour for 30 hours - which will be considered full time,” the Courier Mail reports.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

punch*drunk — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 23:28:57 GMT

“Designed with Gen Y in mind, participants will work six hours a day, five days a week, take morning and afternoon rests of at least 15 minutes and a lunch break of at least an hour.”

“Participants will be paid an allowance of between $10.14 and $16.45 an hour for 30 hours - which will be considered full time,” the Courier Mail reports.

So how many hours do you think they should be paid for? Full time is generally considered anything over 35 hours per week.

Do we pay them for 35 hours? 40 hours? i know people that work 60 hours and in the past I worked as much as 70 when it was required.

I think you'll find despite whether they are considered full time or part time, most people ony get paid for the actual hours they work. Full time or part time classification would have more to do with entitlement/insurance etc than how many hours they get paid for.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

freakiness — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:04:45 GMT

What happens if they're injured? Given that the young are over represented in workplace death and injury it's ludicrous to exempt them from such standards. Is that a piece of the red tape they aim to abolish?

Green army members will be exempt from Commonwealth workplace laws, including the Work Health and Safety Act, the Fair Work Act and the Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

freakiness — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:07:19 GMT

With the attcaks on Rudd over the death of 4 people and the accusations that he was negligent by implementing the program I hope they're going to wear the death of any young people here and pay the compo out of their own pockets.

At least those people were covered by work cover laws, not exempt from them.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

spotweldersfriend — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:10:07 GMT

We should have a red army (iron ore) and a black army (coal) and get the economy pumping

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

punch*drunk — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:12:12 GMT

Hmmm, perhaps you're right about the full time/part time thing....seems to be a bit of a grey area.

I found this though, traineeship awards

Probably they will get paid under something like that.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

punch*drunk — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:13:49 GMT

What happens if they're injured?

The insurance will cover them.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

**meep** — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 00:58:39 GMT

I'm missing something as well because the $622 is based on a 38hr week, it should be 30hrs.

Also, do we know which rates will apply? Apprentices? Trainees?

I don't understand this either:

Green Army members will be exempt from work, health and safety act. How? Does anyone here know? Wouldnt the existing law need to be changed to allow this? I would really like some more info on this. Perhaps we should wait:

"Labor's environment spokesman, Mark Buttler, said the government should release more details. With only four months this program is due to start, no one is clear on the specific details about how the Green Army will work. Of considerable concern are the exemptions from the work health and safety........"

I do like the opportunities this program will provide to young people:

The work the person undertakes as Part of a Green Army programme would normally be counted toward a requirement of a training course such as a Certificate 1 or 2 in land management, park management, landscaping and horticulture.

Upon completion, there will be opportunities for participants to undertake further education and training or potential employment with councils, state and national parks, as well as undertake careers in the thousands of environmental businesses across Australia.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

punch*drunk — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 01:03:05 GMT

Green Army members will be exempt from work, health and safety act. How? Does anyone here know? Wouldnt the existing law need to be changed to allow this? I would really like some more info on this. Perhaps we should wait:

Meep, I read in one of the articles that state and territory laws will apply (the article linked to specifically mentions federal) and when I was checking the awards it seems that trainees (if thats what they'll be) seem to come under state laws too. Apparantly they'll also be insured by the both government and the trainers.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

**meep** — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 01:04:06 GMT

@spotweldersfriend wrote:
We should have a red army (iron ore) and a black army (coal) and get the economy pumping

Do you have any more details re what the wages will be based on and re the work safatey or is all the info in your link?

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

**meep** — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 01:13:19 GMT

Thanks Punch.

It was my understanding all that came under the Comm Work Health and Safety Act.

*confused*

think i'll just wait for the details to be announced........

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

pct001wine — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 01:14:39 GMT

Wait 'til someone gets seriously injured or (touch wood, it won't happen) die during a Green Army stint and see if the same outrage happens a la the Home Insulation issue.

Maybe, because it's called an "Army" we can put the real Army in charge, and call it "Operation Forced Labour" or some such nonsense.

Re: Tony Abbott's Green Army.....

punch*drunk — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 01:16:22 GMT

To be honest I'm not sure how all these awards and OHS stuff works, but it seems higly unlikely the government would get away with not having them adequately covered.

Green army members will not be covered by Commonwealth workplace laws, including the Work, Health and Safety Act, the Fair Work Act and the Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act.

Despite this, Mr Hunt said all green army members would be covered by workplace protections, including state and territory occupational health and safety laws, insurance provided by the government and by ''service providers'' paid by the government to recruit, establish and manage green army teams, and federal work, health and safety ''compliance orders''.