topic Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty?? in Community Spirit

What's the difference if you plead guilty??

the_bob_delusion — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:01:24 GMT

Say you committed a crime. You have to plead guilty or not guilty.

What's really the difference between if you go to trial and be found guilty vs admitting you're guilty to start off with.

Do you get a more lenient sentence or something???

If not, wouldn't you be better off pleading not guilty and see how it plays out in trial.

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

cherry*135 — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:09:59 GMT

Some people (like that male that murdered Jill Meagher) have to much evidence stacked up against them right from the beginning to plead not guilty?

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

the_bob_delusion — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:12:40 GMT

but why not try his luck. Maybe the investigation stuft up and he gets out on a technicality???

People clearly guilty with plenty of evidence going against them still go thru trial all the time. So why don't they all plead not guilty unless you're treated more leniently. But I don't know if the latter is true or not? anyone know??

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

janeababe — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:13:25 GMT

ahh, well, legally I dont know, but my thoughts would be that if you plead guilty, then you take ownership of the crime you have been charged with. Lets say *murder*

If you plead not guilty, then it has to be PROOVED that you commited the crime, but there could be a possibility that there might not be sufficient evidence to put you away, or the jury might not agree with each others verdict, or there could be a mistrial... many number of things really...

personally, i wouldnt be able to live with myself if i pleaded not guilty to a crime i knew damn well i committed.... but i would never plead guilty to something i didnt do!

(i have always wanted to steal a car... i would NEVER do it, but i have always had an inner desire to be REAL naughty and do it! LOL) I was probably a car theif in a past life or something! ha! ... but i get all nervy if there is a cop car driving behind me in traffic, so stealing a car is way out of my depth of courage.... (very much a good thing too! LOL)

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

cherry*135 — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:19:15 GMT

ADRIAN Ernest Bayley has pleaded guilty to murdering ABC staffer Jill Meagher.

Bayley, 41, this afternoon admitted to the crime in the Victorian Supreme Court.

He also pleaded guilty to one count of raping the 29-year old woman.

Bayley was remanded in custody for a plea hearing on June 11.

What is a plea hearing?. Now that he has pleaded guilty to murder & rape is he going to put up a plea for a lesser sentence?

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

**meep** — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:25:49 GMT

What is a plea hearing?. Now that he has pleaded guilty to murder & rape is he going to put up a plea for a lesser sentence?

Possibly. That's what I was going to ask..

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

clair.de.lune — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:26:40 GMT

That's not refraining from posting meep

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:28:42 GMT

if you are guilty, and your lawyer knows you are guilty, the lawyer can't go into court and plead not guilty.

if you plead guilty, it saves court time (and prosecution money) and is possibly a sign of you being ready to take responsibility for your crimes and hence a higher chance of rehabilitation. This possibly leads to a less severe sentence (usually parole periods and their outcomes are affected too), as this is taken into account.

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

the_bob_delusion — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:28:56 GMT

ahh, well, legally I dont know, but my thoughts would be that if you plead guilty, then you take ownership of the crime you have been charged with. Lets say *murder*

If you plead not guilty, then it has to be PROOVED that you commited the crime, but there could be a possibility that there might not be sufficient evidence to put you away, or the jury might not agree with each others verdict, or there could be a mistrial... many number of things really...

personally, i wouldnt be able to live with myself if i pleaded not guilty to a crime i knew damn well i committed.... but i would never plead guilty to something i didnt do!

(i have always wanted to steal a car... i would NEVER do it, but i have always had an inner desire to be REAL naughty and do it! LOL) I was probably a car theif in a past life or something! ha! ... but i get all nervy if there is a cop car driving behind me in traffic, so stealing a car is way out of my depth of courage.... (very much a good thing too! LOL)

If you have rape and kill someone would you really care about ownership and self respect anyways.

If you're gonna get life for pleading guilty you might as well roll the dice since you have nothing to lose right???

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:30:48 GMT

"The plea hearing is an opportunity for both the prosecution and defence to present information that they want the judge to take into account when deciding on the sentence."

http://www.opp.vic.gov.au/Witnesses-and-Victims/The-Court-Process/The-plea-hearing

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

the_bob_delusion — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:31:24 GMT

if you are guilty, and your lawyer knows you are guilty, the lawyer can't go into court and plead not guilty.

if you plead guilty, it saves court time (and prosecution money) and is possibly a sign of you being ready to take responsibility for your crimes and hence a higher chance of rehabilitation. This possibly leads to a less severe sentence (usually parole periods and their outcomes are affected too), as this is taken into account.

Lawyers don't care if you're guilty or not. It's what he can defend and what prosecutors can prove. It's not up to the lawyers to decide guilty or not.

I used to love watching the practice and boston legal. Being guilty does't mean they can prove you're guilty.

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

**meep** — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:31:40 GMT

That's not refraining from posting meep

did i forget to mention it only applied to that thread?

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

the_bob_delusion — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:32:48 GMT

Just ask OJ

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:34:23 GMT

If you have rape and kill someone would you really care about ownership and self respect anyways.

If you're gonna get life for pleading guilty you might as well roll the dice since you have nothing to lose right???

There are many variations of "life imprisonment" and procedures for Parole/ Early release.

How many people "find" God in prison? How many do you believe are genuine? It looks good for parole if you can show you have changed your ways and appear rehabilitated.

It's not about self respect - it's about how long you want to stay locked up for.

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

j*oono — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:36:22 GMT

Is that true about a lawyer not being able to go in a plead not guilty? Do they have to be told by the defendant that they are actually guilty.

I'm sure many lawyers have pleaded not guilty for people that they know in themselves are guilty.

I think he knows that he's a goner so he's trying for a more lenient sentence.

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:37:22 GMT

Lawyers don't care if you're guilty or not. It's what he can defend and what prosecutors can prove. It's not up to the lawyers to decide guilty or not.

I used to love watching the practice and boston legal. Being guilty does't mean they can prove you're guilty.

Yeah they DO - it's in the Barrister's Rules! If they are found to know of a person's guilt and proceed with a non guilty plea, they are stricken from the Bar!

I'm too lazy to look up the exact ones - but there are heavy, heavy penalties for wasting the Court's time and for breaching the code of ethics!

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

just_me_karen — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:44:06 GMT

The book probably got sold when you dropped out?

Joono, lawyers can and do plead not guilty when the client admits doing the crime, they seek mitigating circumstances such as mental illness, provocation, terrible childhood etc. but if the client admits guilt and there are no mitigating circumstances, they're not allowed to plead not guilty. Some lawyers instruct their client not to tell them.

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:45:04 GMT

Follow the links http://www.nswbar.asn.au/docs/professional/legislation/leg_index.php

but here are a few...

Duty to the Court
25. A barrister has an overriding duty to the Court to act with independence in the
interests of the administration of justice.
26. A barrister must not deceive or knowingly or recklessly mislead the Court.
27. A barrister must take all necessary steps to correct any misleading statement made by
the barrister to a court as soon as possible after the barrister becomes aware that the
statement was misleading.

Duty to opponent
48. A barrister must not knowingly make a false statement to an opponent in relation to
the case (including its compromise).

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

the_bob_delusion — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:47:32 GMT

There are many variations of "life imprisonment" and procedures for Parole/ Early release.

How many people "find" God in prison? How many do you believe are genuine? It looks good for parole if you can show you have changed your ways and appear rehabilitated.

It's not about self respect - it's about how long you want to stay locked up for.

So are you certain of a fact, pleading guilty allows you a more lenient sentence???

I don't know why you bought God up but why should it matter if you suddently become religious while in gaol??? I can understand Christianity is attractive to rapist and murderers since all is forgiven. Another reason why that doctrine is immoral. Don't understand why people believe that???

You say how long you want to be locked up for. But if you committ a serious crime, you're going to be locked up for a long long time regardless so might as well roll the dice. Plenty of guilty people get off.

Re: What's the difference if you plead guilty??

the_bob_delusion — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 10:52:44 GMT

Yeah they DO - it's in the Barrister's Rules! If they are found to know of a person's guilt and proceed with a non guilty plea, they are stricken from the Bar!

I'm too lazy to look up the exact ones - but there are heavy, heavy penalties for wasting the Court's time and for breaching the code of ethics!

When you say they found to know a person's guilt??? What do you mean??? Even someone that's guilty can have legal representation. It's not up to the defending lawyer to judge guilt or not. I agree the defending lawyer can't opening liar. but that's different to defending a guilty client.