topic Re: School and expectations - communication. in Community Spirit

School and expectations - communication.

aspie*mum — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 03:44:52 GMT

I have had ongoing issues with a lack of communication from L's school. (term 4 of last year, and term 1 of this year. Previously she was at a brilliant regional school). I am having (another) PSG in a couple of weeks and below are the topics I would like to cover. I am wondering if any seem unreasonable.

L has Aspergers syndrome (high functioning Autism) and significant anxiety issues. These are some notes I have made (and will edit) but would appreciate any suggestions. If I cannot improve communication with the school, I will move her at the end of the year, and am considering a Montessori school as I think it may be better for her individual needs.

Any opinions on Mentessori schools would be appreciated. It's not something I ever would have considered before, but I'm thinking it might be the way to go if I can't improve communication with her school.

As a parent I have a fundamental right to be involved in my child’s education.

I would like to support L’s teacher in educating L. To do this, I need to know what L is doing in class, what she is challenged by and what I can be doing at home to support her learning.

These are my expectations they are not negotiable:

- I would like to be notified via the communication book of any change in:

Attitude

Behaviour

Work patterns

Friendships

- I expect communication from the teacher via the communication book about positive educational achievements so that they can be reinforced at home. If this cannot be done on a daily basis it can be done on a weekly basis.

- Information on where L sits in terms of the expected standard, and where she is expected to be at the end of term 2, term 3 and term 4.

- The communication book to be used to let me know of any changes in routine (if known in advance) so I can let L know, for example if there is going to be a CRT in the room.

- That HCs, (Psychologist), recommendations on a specific reward incentive are introduced as well as “chill out time”.

These are things that I would like:

- Sending home examples of her work so that she can share with her family and receive positive reinforcement. Positive reinforcement from her family is more significant and meaningful to Lucinda than from her peers or teacher.

- Communication from the teacher on what L is being challenged by at school, so she can be supported on working on that at home.

- Assistance from the teacher for L to find someone to play with before she goes outside at break time.

- If the curriculum topics can be flexible when required to help motivate L.

- Knowing what new topics are going to be covered so I can let L know. L feels more confident when she has some knowledge on a topic. When she feels confident she is more likely to have a go.

- Suggestions from L's teacher on what her family can be doing at home to assist her.

There has to be an acknowledgement that she has a definable problem and that this will involve an individual approach and regiment for a period of time, during which regular communication from school to home is required.

I would like to support Lucinda and her teacher, but I feel unable to do this with the lack of communication from that has been available to me.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

azureline** — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 03:55:39 GMT

Not having children in school myself, my only comment is....seriously investigate the Montessori school before you consider doing it, as I understand it, they do not have a support service for special needs children.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

kengillard — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 04:21:33 GMT

I'm not aware of that AZ? but then again my daughter went to a Montessori pre school almost 30 years ago. Things have changed since then, so I agree with your comment. Check it out. How about a Rudolf Steiner School?

Re: School and expectations - communication.

azureline** — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 04:26:49 GMT

I may be in error there, I believe it is the Steiner one that has no special needs support.(from info provided by a parent whose child was enrolled there)

Re: School and expectations - communication.

catsnknots — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 05:05:16 GMT

I find parts of the letter to be a bit aggressive...

I have found a more calm and positive approach works best as it is very easy to get a teacher offside.

Teachers have a very full role. Some of that stuff looks like what a teacher aid would do so I would look into getting that assistance from one of them.

I also found that the best way to get communication going was to actually go into the classroom at the end of the day and speak with the teacher. I did this at least three times a week.

Previous to pulling my son out of school this week I had asked teachers to communicate with me, his teacher aid also did... my son is 15 so I am in a totally different situation but I get where youre coming from and it is very frustrating.

Remember that your child is not the only one in the classroom and lots of those kids will also need attention.. make the communications book as easy as possible to fill out.. point forms and boxes to tick... teachers unfortunately do not have the time left at the end of the day.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

bella_again — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 05:18:13 GMT

A couple of questions I have are Does L have any educational funding attached to her? Does she have an aide at all?

One of the biggest issues we need to consider as parents of special needs children is the amount of time a teacher has to give all students in his/her class. I'm all for inclusion but with inclusion of special needs there has to be support, its too much to expect from the school without extra funding. Now I have been through this many times, as a parent it is frustrating but you have to be prepared to compromise as well. The teacher should be giving you some form of communication esp where there have been meltdowns or behavioral changes and I think that is fair to expect that but the teacher may not be able to do all you are asking.

If L has funding and support within the school then I'd say most of the above should be achievable esp if she has aiding time.

It's tough as a parent of children who need extra assistance weighing up the needs verses the resources. That of course is not an excuse not to ensure children with special needs have the same access to the curriculum but I think you may have to be calmer and flexible with your approach. What you have written sounds a little demanding so maybe put it this way; Can we ensure that a communication book is filled out with significant changes? and offer to do the same thing at home etc Ask what you can do as a parent to best support the school and go along those lines...

Hope that helps.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

katydidthat — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 05:31:33 GMT

Aspie ... is your DD in primary school? How old is she?

I'm sorry, but I do think you are asking too much of a teacher.

I'd suggest a meeting where you raise your concerns verbally and then BOTH of you discuss the possible solutions - which could perhaps be solved by a weekly or fortnightly chat.

If you talk to L you may be able to find out what she perceives as her challenges (which may not be the same as the teacher's).

You can buy or borrow the text books she uses (if she doesn't bring them home) and keep up to date with what chapters/sections they are studying.

There is a load of information (or should be) on the internet about the curriculum and what kids are supposed to know.

You could also look at a tutor once a week or so ... individual attention could be a lot better than that with a teacher with a class full of kids.

On the finding someone to play with ... it breaks my heart to say it ... but I don't think that that's going to work.

You could try sending a book or a hobby in with your daughter (say Rubik's cubes) ... so she could look like she was happy by herself and she might attract other kids who share her interests.

Assessment can be made flexible for kids ...

Re: School and expectations - communication.

katydidthat — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 05:33:36 GMT

OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you have the time, the teacher might LOVE it if you helped out in L's class once a week or so.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 05:57:53 GMT

To always know where your child sits academically, you ask for a copy of the school curriculum and you follow it at home.

To achieve comfort in a subject area before it is introduced at school, the same applies - be studying at home ahead of the curriculum, get a copy of the text books at home and work through them, get an outside tutor if you don't know what to do yourself. Achieve mastery at home before the topic is even broached at school. There are some good programs out there to assist with this. PM me if you want some suggestions.

As Bella said - anything on the ASD spectrum should come with some sort of funding. Find out what your school is doing with your funding if you are not receiving it in teacher aide time. (As far as I kno0w, there is nothing saying that money needs to be spent on a teacher's aide - it could be used for specialist equipment for example that your child (and many others may benefit from.

Also - remember your parent teacher interview is only 10 minutes - do you really think that you can cover ALL that in 10 minutes and get a reasonable response?

To keep track of your child and how they are doing, you meet the child at the classroom door EVERY afternoon after school and find out, then if need be, get clarification from the teacher. Don't just wait for the quarterly PT meetings - at these there should be no surprises for anyone. If need be - volunteer at the school - be involved in the school so the teachers and other families get to know you - then they are more likely to take an active interest in your child - it might just be a comment from the tuckshop lady or librarian as you pass - but they all help.

Exactly how much time do you think your child's teacher has each day, or even each week to fill in any kind of detailed report? There are 25 other kids in the class as well, each of them entitled to the same opportunities as your child.

Communication is the key - but it has to work both ways and you have to understand the limitations of your classroom teacher.

For best results be proactive and be involved at every step. Get extra curricular tuition, even if you don't think they "need" it - this way you KNOW what your child is capable of - and one last thing...

Knowing where your child sits in relation to other kids has very little significance AT ALL - it is ensuring YOUR child is able to meet THEIR potential. Comparing them with other children either sets limitations or unreal expectations.

In Primary school - you need to worry about Math, English and social skills - the rest is superfluous, and will be learned intuitively if the Math and English are in place - those three basics can be taken care of externally through your shrink and tutors. Trust me - no one cares in grade 10 if your kid failed art in grade 2.

YOU need to create a relationship with your teacher's AIDE - it is they who will know your child better than anyone else.

Finally, my experience with Steiner and Montessori - not structured enough for a HFA and probably not structured enough for an Aspergean (there is a difference - the two are not interchangeable) either. Plus if your child has low motor control - be cautious of the Steiner curriculum as it is motor control focused.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

the_bob_delusion — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 06:01:44 GMT

remembered the last time you asked for advice here.:|

Re: School and expectations - communication.

happyroo_bunji — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 06:14:09 GMT

it has a rather aggressive tone. If I was given what you've written, I would be a bit miffed.

Why should the teacher have to be responsible for finding a playmate for your daughter?

When do you think the teacher will have time to teach after implementing rewards/chill out time etc?

Re: School and expectations - communication.

aspie*mum — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 06:36:38 GMT

1. My daughter goes to a private school - I pay for her to have smaller classes and extra attention. The school was aware of her issues and assured us they were able to cater for her before we enrolled her.

2. I AM a teacher. A primary school teacher AT A SPECIAL school, after several years of main stream teaching and as a teacher, I do all these things. I do not feel they are excessive. Especially at a private school.

3. My daughter does have aided time every day. The psychologist suggested this time be used for 1-on-1 writing time with L. Unfortunately the teacher has decided to use this time for the aid to take a small literacy group whilst she stays with the teacher focussed group. Whilst my daughter has the aided time (only 1 hour a day) the teacher gets to say where and what the aid does. So in this case, it's not of great value to L.

4. L is almost 7, and in grade 1.

5. I am a working single parent, so I simply cannot talk to her teacher before/after school - which is why the communication book was implemented. My dad who is retired does the pickup/drop-off.

6. The school wants to have only 1 meeting (1 hour) per term where they inform me of her Individual Learning Plan. That's it. For best practise, for a child with Autism, there should be a meeting once a month.

7. I am a teacher, so I can test my child and plot her against the progression points to see where she is at. HOWEVER, my testing comes up as much higher than her class testing - why? Because she is at home, relaxed and her anxiety is low, which gives a false result. I need to know where she is testing AT school and where school expects her to be at going forward.

8. Social engineering is VERY important for children with ASD. L is disorganised (part of her condition). By the time she is packed up, all the other kids are outside and playing and she simply doesn't have the social skills to think to go find a kid and ask them to play (although she is getting better). The psychologist (private, top ASD psych) has told them over and over - she needs social engineering - you have to make sure she goes OUT with someone and then she will play with them. She's ok once in the play, just has trouble initiating it. She seems to be reasonably popular, gets invited to lots of parties, play dates etc. Just has issues with asking kids to play whilst she is at school. It's not hard for a teacher to do this. It takes all of 20 seconds when the kids are eating.

9. There is no point getting a tutor for her, because the school wont communicate the curriculum! Whilst in general, schools have the same outcomes, they have very different ways of getting there. Plus, she's too tired. If her teacher can tell me what she needs help in, I can do it myself - but they don't seem to want to. It's so weird.

10. I can't do parent helper, as I am at work. I'm a single parent with massive bills in regards to all L's specialists. Whilst I'd LOVE to take a day off a week to be with her and help her, it's simply not financially viable.

11. Chill out time - L has ASD. She needs to have 10 minutes break between each task. That's a fact. She gets sensory overload. I don't pay hundreds of dollars every month for suggestions from a psychologist, as well as school visits to have the school ignore them.

12. L has the same rights to learn as other children. And she learns in a different way. You wouldn't tell a child with cerebral palsy they couldn't use a walking frame because it was unfair to the other kids. You wouldn't take a hearing impaired kids hearing aids away because no one else had them. It's the same with L. She has special needs. She needs special concessions. She has the same rights to learn as any other child.

13. I cannot support the teacher and L if I am unaware of what is happening at school.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

aspie*mum — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 06:39:23 GMT

My biggest problem with the school is that they want each child to learn at their own pace - which is all well and good, except that L has a very high IQ. She has the ability to do extremely well IF given the chance. I don't feel the school is allowing her to reach her academic potential by insisting she sticks to a curriculum that has no interest to her.

It doesn't help that when she was at a regional school, they went above and beyond any expectations I had and she had a wonderful start there. This has also raised my expectations because I have seen best practice - and what is being offered now is far from that.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 06:46:43 GMT

I should also add that education is a 12 year process (well actually a lot longer than that) but each child will develop at their own speed irrespective of what the curriculum says they "should" be doing - a curriculum is nothing more than a policy document designed as a one size fits all guideline. It's up to YOU, the parent to tailor that to your child's needs.

You say HFA - my next question is have you had an IQ test done? This MAY give you an idea of potential - (there is also a difference between gifted and talented - a child may be gifted, but that doesn't mean they are displaying those traits

I raise this because a gifted child learns very differently to one within normal stanines - and it is far more involved than just setting them more work - they will need an entirely different curriculum. Things may have changed in recent years - but many schools do not have the understanding or ability to cater for a gifted child.

Remember that if your child IS gifted - they are gifted 24/7 (just like they have HFA or Asperger's 24/7) not just for that hour a week where they may get to go to a totally irrelevant extention class.

Although outdated - an SOI (Structure of the Intellect) test is extremely beneficial for any child as it assesses 26 areas of the intelligence - (not just two like the WIISK or S&B) and a heap of other things too - Just remember the actual number you get is outdated as the leagues tables have not been normed for many many years - so you still need the standard IQ tests, which undoubtedly you already have to get a diagnosis - but it was this test which was the most beneficial for the child, the parent AND the teacher as it demonstrated HOW the child learns and their areas of strength and weakness.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

catsnknots — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 06:52:46 GMT

You asked for advice.. we gave it.. you don't like it.

I too am a single parent.. I struggled through without anything.. even a diagnosis.

I had to make sure I was there for my child after school as my child came first... before anything...

I would leave my job in a heartbeat if it meant a better outcome for my child

Re: School and expectations - communication.

azureline** — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 07:02:01 GMT

I think the psychologist should be teaching L how to play/instigate play. My 6yo GD with Aspergers psychologist teaches her strategies which are reinforced by her parents... or myself, whoever drops her at school. She also has a "buddy" in a higher class. Small private school, no other special needs children in the school, no teacher aide.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 07:06:14 GMT

1. My daughter goes to a private school - I pay for her to have smaller classes and extra attention. The school was aware of her issues and assured us they were able to cater for her before we enrolled her.

hmmmmm - school is school - they were THAT sure? even before getting to know YOUR child?

2. I AM a teacher. A primary school teacher AT A SPECIAL school, after several years of main stream teaching and as a teacher, I do all these things. I do not feel they are excessive. Especially at a private school.

A teacher at a private school has the same limitations as one at a public school.

3. My daughter does have aided time every day. The psychologist suggested this time be used for 1-on-1 writing time with L. Unfortunately the teacher has decided to use this time for the aid to take a small literacy group whilst she stays with the teacher focussed group. Whilst my daughter has the aided time (only 1 hour a day) the teacher gets to say where and what the aid does. So in this case, it's not of great value to L.

one on one writing time can be done externally, either with an ocupational therapist, ot with you. The small group time is not a bad thing - it gives the teacher more time with YOUR child as she has less children to focus on and also reduces the class size making it easier for your child to meet and get to know her classmates and make friends... (But that's not saying the teacher is using the aide well - I'm just saying there are good things about small group work)

4. L is almost 7, and in grade 1.

5. I am a working single parent, so I simply cannot talk to her teacher before/after school - which is why the communication book was implemented. My dad who is retired does the pickup/drop-off.

If you say you can't, you are absolutely correct - but if you ask "how can I achieve this?" it will open up many more possibilities. Clearly the communication book isn't working, so find something else that does.

6. The school wants to have only 1 meeting (1 hour) per term where they inform me of her Individual Learning Plan. That's it. For best practise, for a child with Autism, there should be a meeting once a month.

Were you informed of this before you enrolled? I take it that's just for the IEP? meh - they don't stick to them anyway LOL - all that really determines is your level of funding...... From memory, we got one IEP a semester, or it may have even only been annually?

7. I am a teacher, so I can test my child and plot her against the progression points to see where she is at. HOWEVER, my testing comes up as much higher than her class testing - why? Because she is at home, relaxed and her anxiety is low, which gives a false result. I need to know where she is testing AT school and where school expects her to be at going forward.

Does it matter in Grade 1? You can work on the anxiety issues with the shrink - you just need to know/ ensure she is getting the information.

8. Social engineering is VERY important for children with ASD. L is disorganised (part of her condition). By the time she is packed up, all the other kids are outside and playing and she simply doesn't have the social skills to think to go find a kid and ask them to play (although she is getting better). The psychologist (private, top ASD psych) has told them over and over - she needs social engineering - you have to make sure she goes OUT with someone and then she will play with them. She's ok once in the play, just has trouble initiating it. She seems to be reasonably popular, gets invited to lots of parties, play dates etc. Just has issues with asking kids to play whilst she is at school. It's not hard for a teacher to do this. It takes all of 20 seconds when the kids are eating.

so get the shrink to help her to practise approaching other kids - teach her how to role play it etc - it's fine saying the teacher "should" be doing it - but if they're not - just get on with it yourself...

9. There is no point getting a tutor for her, because the school wont communicate the curriculum! Whilst in general, schools have the same outcomes, they have very different ways of getting there. Plus, she's too tired. If her teacher can tell me what she needs help in, I can do it myself - but they don't seem to want to. It's so weird.

Contact the education department in your state. The curriculum is a public document. Who cares how they get there - the only report card that matters is the one in grade 12

10. I can't do parent helper, as I am at work. I'm a single parent with massive bills in regards to all L's specialists. Whilst I'd LOVE to take a day off a week to be with her and help her, it's simply not financially viable.

11. Chill out time - L has ASD. She needs to have 10 minutes break between each task. That's a fact. She gets sensory overload. I don't pay hundreds of dollars every month for suggestions from a psychologist, as well as school visits to have the school ignore them.

So, she needs to learn to ask to go to the toilet in between tasks - (that's code for "I need to go for a bit of a walk to get my head right")

12. L has the same rights to learn as other children. And she learns in a different way. You wouldn't tell a child with cerebral palsy they couldn't use a walking frame because it was unfair to the other kids. You wouldn't take a hearing impaired kids hearing aids away because no one else had them. It's the same with L. She has special needs. She needs special concessions. She has the same rights to learn as any other child.

Unfortunately, you are asking a mainstream school to cater to those special needs - sometimes it just isn't gonna happen - ya just have to accept that and fill in the gaps yourself - it's how it is...

13. I cannot support the teacher and L if I am unaware of what is happening at school.

Re: School and expectations - communication.

catsnknots — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 07:11:48 GMT

http://community.ebay.com.au/topic/Community-Spirit/Support-Issues-Catholic/500159198

This has been going on since last year..

I think the school needs to be changed...

I would like to know what the problem is???

is the child doing generally ok at school, has she got friends (seems to me she does as she is even getting invites to parties... ) is she doing her work in class?

What is the problem? Is it just the communication book or is there something else still going on?

Re: School and expectations - communication.

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 07:12:36 GMT

My biggest problem with the school is that they want each child to learn at their own pace - which is all well and good, except that L has a very high IQ. She has the ability to do extremely well IF given the chance. I don't feel the school is allowing her to reach her academic potential by insisting she sticks to a curriculum that has no interest to her.

It doesn't help that when she was at a regional school, they went above and beyond any expectations I had and she had a wonderful start there. This has also raised my expectations because I have seen best practice - and what is being offered now is far from that.

well then, you find a school that can cater for a gifted child. You are expecting a mainstream school which is designed to cater for the mid 80% of students to cater for a child at least 2 standard stanines above the norm.

Add to that the special needs as well, which makes her "twice exceptional" and you are now talking about a child amongst 2% of the population.

Just as a child who is 2 standard deviations below the norm needs specialist education, with EXPERTS in THAT field, so too does a child who is 2 standard deviations or more ABOVE.

Mainstream schooling is designed for IQ's between about 85 and 115

Re: School and expectations - communication.

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 07:24:38 GMT

BTW - a shrink who specializes in ASD doesn't necessarily specialize in G&T or TE.... and vice versa - you may need one of each that spoecializes in each field.