topic Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes in Community Spirit

Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

lealta — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 04:39:38 GMT

Last week in the Philadephia, (the city of brotherly love) approximately 12 individuals severely beat two gay individuals who were minding their own business. They were hurt so badly, that when the police arrived, they thought there had been a shooting because there was so much blood. They were walking down the street, minding their own business when one of them was asked if the other was his boyfriend. He answered yes, and then the pummeling began.

After video showing the perpetrators was released by the police department in hopes of helping identify them, it was only a matter of time before they were identified. It turns out, that one of the men who participated in the beating, was an assistant coach in a Catholic high school and several of the others, were former students of this high school. I guess this doesn't speak too highly of their Christian upbringing, that they would think it's okay to beat the carp out of a couple of gay men.

It appears that our federal government has been asked to prosecute these individuals based on federal hate crime laws that were inacted in the aftermath of the beating and murder of Matthew Shepard several years ago. Although there are hate-crime laws in Philadelphia, gay individuals are not included in the criteria for hate crimes.

Do you think there should be hate-crime laws or should people only be charged with regular crimes when they break the law, for no other reason than their hatred of certain groups of people?

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

shepherdsrule — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 04:43:13 GMT

Do you think there should be hate-crime laws or should people only be charged with regular crimes when they break the law, for no other reason than their hatred of certain groups of people?

Which ever one comes with the toughest and longest sentence IMO.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

lealta — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 04:52:07 GMT

gottbecareful, I actually think they are charged with a normal assault but by adding the hate crime designation, more time can be tacked onto their sentence.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

shepherdsrule — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:03:18 GMT

@lealta wrote:
gottbecareful, I actually think they are charged with a normal assault but by adding the hate crime designation, more time can be tacked onto their sentence.

Then that's how it should be

they are cowards and stupid on top of it.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

lealta — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:11:44 GMT

I have just never understood, how someone can hate a person because they are gay, or because of the color of their skin. I have a son who is gay. He was in a Denny's a few years ago, late at night with three of his friends. There was a table of men near them who were drunk. They started making derogatory comments about gays, directed towards my son's table. He and his friends were so uncomfortable and nervous, that they got up and left without eating. No one should ever be subjected to this. My heart breaks when I hear about a beating like the two men in the story suffered. I understand how easily it could be my son, in this situation.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

channys_mum — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:16:55 GMT

I don't think there should be a difference. If you beat the living carp out of someone then you don't exactly love them do you.

If this was a little old white hetero man/lady that got beaten for the $20 in his/her pocket, should the rabble get a lesser sentence than if it was a gay or coloured person.

Yes I know people bash gays because they are gay and different races because they are different races etc, I just have a problem with different strokes. In my opinion there should not be lesser crimes because of that.

It's the same as the yeah I know you helped murder so and so but we will let you off if you rat on your mates. Nooo you did it too.

This is of course jmo

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

shepherdsrule — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:18:31 GMT

Ridiculous isn't it ?

I have 2 for 2.....

I have a gay daughter, and my son is part aboriginal, so I can get a little heated in this sort of discussion......

Although I must say 'female' homosexuality seems more accepted (who knows why?) and my son has never had any racial slurs made against him (he is 6'4" and gorgeous, maybe that helps LOL).

Either way, hate is hate and I have pity for those who have been raised/conditioned to think this way.

Guess what ? We all come in to the world the same way and we are all going to go out the same way.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

channys_mum — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:19:39 GMT

lealta, my daughter is gay, so I know where you are coming from.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

channys_mum — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:22:34 GMT

gottabe, how old is your daughter. When mine first made the announcement all her peers were being kicked out of home. There is a whole different attitude now I think

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

thegoblinswillgetu — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:32:08 GMT

So should it be considered the same just because it is a beating?

Shouldn't the severity of the crime play a major role?

Seven beating up one.

Or one beating up one.

I think hate crimes should get the maximum punishment.

The people who do that is for the sole purpose to degrade the victim.

Many times these victims die.

Someone who beats up the little old lady for her purse is doing it for money.

Whether it's money for food or drugs, the beating wasn't done just for the sake of pounding the carp out of someone.

Lealta, your son sounds like a wonderful young man.

You have every right to be proud, and yes, as his mother, I am sure you worry.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

channys_mum — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:33:01 GMT

I don't agree that the little old lady is a lesser person than the gay guy. I do agree than in a mob/pack attack the animals should be caged for a very long time,

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

katydidthat — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:34:51 GMT

I'm not sure ... I don't agree with the institutionalising of statute law here. I think the sentencing should consider all legal aspects of a crime and that pleas in mitigation should address other issues.

Yes, I think that the reasons for committing a crime should be taken into account. But, I am so against mandatory sentencing.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

j*oono — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:44:11 GMT

Yes, it should be a hate crime but I also think that they should be charged with attempted murder, not just assault.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

shepherdsrule — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:31:44 GMT

My daughter is 28 - she played soccer Premier League from the age of 15, where apparantly all 'female' players are GAY - LOL, but she never got dealt with the stigma, not the way a gay male would, and I find that amazing, not to mentiuon sexist, if you can say that when you are talking about gay people..

She is in the DF now, an officer in the Army MP's and couldn't be happier, so feel my job is done.

But I do wonder, how would it have been if it were my son who was gay ? Would his life have been as happy ?

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

shepherdsrule — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:47:43 GMT

My pride and joy - aged 20

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

channys_mum — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:38:27 GMT

My daughter will be 48 soon and things were very different back then.

Even for family. Her sister used to cop snide remarks. 'So if your sister is a lesbian does that mean you are too', and worse.

I was asked where I went wrong raising her.

By the way nice looking girl.

I think there is a reasonable acceptance in my town now of male and female. I never hear any adverse remartks.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

lealta — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:44:19 GMT

worse.

I was asked where I went wrong raising her.

There was one man on the U.S. board, who didn't ask me where I went wrong. He flat out told me it was my fault that I had a gay son. I think that's the only time in all the years I've been posting on the boards, that I was truly hurt by a comment. But then I realized that it said a lot more about him, than it did about me. My son is a very happy and well adjusted young man. I couldn't be more proud of him. I know a lot of people who have straight children that have given them problems for years. I never had that with my son or my daughter, so my husband and I must have done something right.

I will never, for the life of me, understand why some people just want to be cruel and hurt others. Yes, we can all have disagreements, but to set out to hurt someone for no reason, absolutely baffles me. And beating a person senseless just because they are gay, is something that I just can't wrap my mind around.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

yaryarde — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 16:54:44 GMT

@lealta wrote:

I will never, for the life of me, understand why some people just want to be cruel and hurt others. Yes, we can all have disagreements, but to set out to hurt someone for no reason, absolutely baffles me.

I can't believe what I just read - I'm baffled too.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

sineaterdoodah — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 17:37:45 GMT

my husband went through that too,after his brother came out,and he was married to his first wife then.

my BIL is 59 now,hubby is almost 61.

there are a few family members who still won't speak to either of them,or me,and who wouldn't speak to my inlaws,because nobody tried to "fix" craig.

imho,they are the ones who need fixing.

Re: Do you believe certain crimes should be catagorized as hate crimes

softail-joanie — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 18:13:10 GMT

Do you think there should be hate-crime laws or should people only be charged with regular crimes when they break the law, for no other reason than their hatred of certain groups of people?

I don't know, on the one hand, how do we know in every case if or not it was done out of some discrimination or it was just the victim that attackers didn't like and it having nothing to do with what they are or how they live? I believe a crime of violence should be viewed the same no matter who it's against.

Speaking as an ongoing victim of violent attacks from police, I can't say for sure in some cases if discrimination played a part. I can only speculate. There was the time in 2011 where discrimination was pretty clear, but it was used as more of a baiting tactic to get a rise from me so they could have better grounds to arrest me and abuse me in jail. But I tend to believe it was me they dislike and was just using that about me. Compared to the problem of cops not being accountable for their misdeads, the hate crime problem is minor.

So a crime should be a crime and nothing more. There is hate involved in any violent attack on anyone, no one person or how they live should make it more or less a crime, and wearing a silly uniform and badge shouldn't give someone a pass.