topic Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason in Community Spirit

Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

grandmoon — Thu, 16 May 2013 02:54:24 GMT

for the family to be awarded Asylum.

A US appeals court has denied asylum to a Christian family who fled Germany so they could home-school their children, ruling that immigration laws do not grant a safe haven to people everywhere who face restrictions that would be prohibited under the Constitution.

Many US home-school families and evangelical Christians have taken up the cause of Uwe and Hannelore Romeike, who faced fines and the threat of losing custody of their children because they refused to comply with Germany's compulsory school attendance law.

In 2008, the Romeikes moved from Germany to the US and applied for asylum. That request was initially granted by an immigration judge in 2010. But the Board of Immigration Appeals overturned that ruling, and the Romeikes appealed.

On Tuesday, a three-member panel of US 6th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the Romeikes do not meet the criteria for asylum.

"The question is not whether Germany's policy violates the American Constitution, whether it violates the parameters of an international treaty or whether Germany's law is a good idea. It is whether the Romeikes have established the prerequisites of an asylum claim - a well-founded fear of persecution on account of a protected ground," the court wrote. In this case, that protected ground is religious freedom.

The court found that the German government treats all truants the same, regardless of their reasons for not attending school.

The Home School Legal Defence Association represented the Romeikes in court. Mike Donnelly, its director of international relations, said the Romeikes planned to appeal.

"The court ignored the evidence that Germany targets people for religious or philosophical reasons," Donnelly said, referring to a 2003 German Supreme Court decision that found the compulsory attendance law served a legitimate government interest of counteracting the development of parallel societies.

The 6th Circuit considered this argument but dismissed it, stating, "Any compulsory-attendance law could be said to have this effect."

The US government said in court documents the Romeikes did not belong to any particular Christian denomination and described the parents' objections to the government-approved schools as vague.

For instance, Uwe Romeike claimed that the schools taught witchcraft based on a game played by classmates of his wife when she was in school "that involved pushing chairs and glasses around, and dangling a pendulum."

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

azureline** — Thu, 16 May 2013 02:56:03 GMT

No, it isn't imo but perhaps there is more to it?

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

lakeland27 — Thu, 16 May 2013 05:19:51 GMT

no, the children need to be taught more than bible verses.

having a close relationship to someone like that child (now an adult)makes me aware of this kind of hidden neglect/abuse

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

**meep** — Thu, 16 May 2013 05:39:59 GMT

no, the children need to be taught more than bible verses.

having a close relationship to someone like that child (now an adult)makes me aware of this kind of hidden neglect/abuse

I don't actually know what's involved in home schooling but isn't there a curriculum that needs to be followed? Exams? or is that different in the US?

as to the OP, no, i dont think home schooling is a good enough reason to seek asylum.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

bella_again — Thu, 16 May 2013 05:40:22 GMT

I'm not sure what you mean LL but I do think that perhaps there is more to this particular story. Lots of people homeschool for a whole range of reasons, people from different backgrounds philosophies and belief systems. Teaching a child Bible verses is not abuse nor is teaching a child religious humanism abuse. If a family homeschool their children and are giving them a balanced education then they are probably doing a better job than a lot of schools are able to do.

It really depends on the family as to how balanced they are. I think what Germany denies is the right for families to chose how they will educate their children, they are locked into one system. I don't agree with it.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

bella_again — Thu, 16 May 2013 05:44:31 GMT

There is no set curriculum for a homeschooler in Australia but there are a set of guidelines that a family agree to and that includes covering all subject areas and keeping records.

It depends on which state you are in and I think thats the case with the US as well it varies from state to state,

In vic you tick some boxes and sign the form. Years ago I sent in a 30 odd page document to my regional dept outlining all subjects, content that would be covered and strategies used. they didn't know what to do with lol 😐 In the end approved me anyway coz they couldn't ensure a duty of care to my special needs girls.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

bella_again — Thu, 16 May 2013 05:45:24 GMT

Sorry hope that made sense, doing too many things at once 🙂

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

lakeland27 — Thu, 16 May 2013 06:37:54 GMT

I'm not sure what you mean LL but I do think that perhaps there is more to this particular story. Lots of people homeschool for a whole range of reasons, people from different backgrounds philosophies and belief systems. Teaching a child Bible verses is not abuse nor is teaching a child religious humanism abuse. If a family homeschool their children and are giving them a balanced education then they are probably doing a better job than a lot of schools are able to do.

It really depends on the family as to how balanced they are. I think what Germany denies is the right for families to chose how they will educate their children, they are locked into one system. I don't agree with it.

i'm sorry about generalising, its always a mistake. the particular home-schooling method i have problems with is a particular christian one. having seen the books .. i was appalled at what some think sufficient for an education (which is what i should have said)

maths based on bible verses.. creationism masquerading as a science subject etc.

if they (the couple mentioned) actually moved to the states to access something so inadequate (and frankly other -worldly) they moved there to make a big mistake. if they'd moved for a better outcome, that i could understand.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

**meep** — Thu, 16 May 2013 07:16:31 GMT

i was appalled at what some think sufficient for an education (which is what i should have said) maths based on bible verses.. creationism masquerading as a science subject etc.

perhaps having mandatory public or approved private education as is the case in Germany, is not such a bad idea.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

lakeland27 — Thu, 16 May 2013 07:51:42 GMT

i was appalled at what some think sufficient for an education (which is what i should have said) maths based on bible verses.. creationism masquerading as a science subject etc.

perhaps having mandatory public or approved private education as is the case in Germany, is not such a bad idea.

well the system here is definitely open to abuse, i know of one girl who was actually babysitting younger siblings instead (friend of DD)

another of the girls friends dobbed 🙂

legislation is problematic sometimes its not the best approach (both sides of the political divide make this error 🙂 ) Some homeschooled kids do better outside the system, which of course depends on the person doing the job. its also not really a good idea to derail the efforts of people like bella so i think closer scrutiny is a better way. perform the task well and up to standard, no problems.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

the_great_she_elephant — Thu, 16 May 2013 08:11:26 GMT

well the system here is definitely open to abuse, i know of one girl who was actually babysitting younger siblings instead (friend of DD)

another of the girls friends dobbed 🙂

legislation is problematic sometimes its not the best approach (both sides of the political divide make this error 🙂 ) Some homeschooled kids do better outside the system, which of course depends on the person doing the job. its also not really a good idea to derail the efforts of people like bella so i think closer scrutiny is a better way. perform the task well and up to standard, no problems.

Do home schooled kids sit the NAPLAN and if so are they supervised to show there is no cheating? (Absolutely no suggestion that you might cheat, Bella, but I suspect there are one or two - like the ones LL mentioned - who might) It would be a good way of evaluating how well they are being taught.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

lakeland27 — Thu, 16 May 2013 08:14:41 GMT

i dont know the answer she-ele 🙂 sounds like bella would.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

**meep** — Thu, 16 May 2013 08:27:29 GMT

If the system here is open to abuse, how can it be improved? I find this interesting because, as I said earlier I didn't know what was actually involved but was under the impression that it was more restrictive.

I had a quick look at homeschooling international status in comparison with ours and here are a few examples:

Germany - Illegal, public or approved private education is mandatory with the only exception being where continued school attendance would create undue hardship for an individual child.

Iceland - Legal only for holders of teaching certificates, in other cases public education is mandatory.

Netherlands - Legal under restrictive conditions, only legal for parents that cannot find a school fitting their beliefs in the area.

Poland - Legal under restrictive conditions. Every homeschooled child must be supervised by an authorized school (can be a private school) and pass annual exams. Homeschooled children received diplomas from supervising school.

Finland - Legal as alternative to the mandatory public school system. Written and oral examinations to check on progress are mandatory.

Australia - Legal as alternative to the mandatory public school system.

India - Legal as alternative to the mandatory public school system.

Indonesia - Legal as alternative to the mandatory public school system.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

**meep** — Thu, 16 May 2013 08:31:28 GMT

there are religious private schools in germany where you can send your kids. you know the sort with nuns and no computer cos they are the devils or so.

they must be complete nutcases or wanted to emigrate to the US anyway (which makes them nutcases too i guess).

Don't those private schools have to be approved? If so, what are the requirements?

The parents in question want to teach their kids at home.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

lakeland27 — Thu, 16 May 2013 08:36:40 GMT

from that list they would have been better off here, or india maybe. mmm

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

**meep** — Thu, 16 May 2013 08:41:48 GMT

from that list they would have been better off here, or india maybe. mmm

mmm indeed....

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

lakeland27 — Thu, 16 May 2013 08:56:58 GMT

mmm indeed....

more mmmm's and a gosh (and other sounds of surprise / uncertainty)

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

**meep** — Thu, 16 May 2013 09:33:26 GMT

more mmmm's and a gosh (and other sounds of surprise / uncertainty)

uh huh

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

conformatallcosts — Thu, 16 May 2013 09:43:49 GMT

90% of homeschooled american children are taught that the world was created 2000 years ago.

Tells you much of what you need to know about the motivation behind homeschooling.

90% of children who are murdered after long term abuse are also homeschooled.

Tells you the rest of what you need to know about the motivation behind homeschooling.

Re: Is Home Schooling a Good Enough Reason

lakeland27 — Thu, 16 May 2013 09:52:47 GMT

but i know people who have done a good secular job of it. they could ba a minority i guess.