topic Re: Hinch makes some very good points. in Community Spirit

Hinch makes some very good points.

the_bob_delusion — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:01:58 GMT

http://www.news.com.au/national/derryn-hinch-slams-celebrity-backed-bali-nine-mercy-campaign-video/story-fncynjr2-1227198776862

RADIO AND TV personality Derryn Hinch has criticised the decision made by Australian celebrities to call for mercy for Bali Nine masterminds Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, saying their campaign is “hypocritical”.

“In Indonesia, they know that when they commit crimes like this, then you could get the death penalty.

“I say hypocritical because are these people who are up there who are saying ‘I stand for mercy’ — is that for Australian drug dealers or Australians on death row, or for everybody?”

“I mean did they stand up a week ago and say ‘I stand for mercy’ for the Brazilian who was executed in Indonesia, or the one from the Netherlands, or the Indonesian woman or somebody from Malawi? Or is it just Australians?,” he said.

He also questioned whether those celebrities involved in the video were against the death penalty in general, or if they were only against capital punishment for specific offences.

“Also if you are against the death penalty, are you against the death penalty for all offences?,” he asked.

“Are you against the death penalty say for the terrorists? Did you try and campaign to try and save the lives of the Bali Bombers?,” he said.

“Did we put our hands up and say show them clemency? Don’t execute them.”

He concluded with his view: “If you’re going to say ‘I stand for mercy’, stand for mercy for everybody, if you’re against the death penalty, be against it for everybody. you can’t be a little bit pregnant,” he added.

Kinda makes sense to me.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

cherry*135 — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:13:12 GMT

Not really. Prisoners have a choice - act like an ass for their entire sentence or exhibit model behaviour with the expectation that they will get out of prison earlier than if they act like an ass the whole tiime. The good behaviour thing does work.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

bushies.girl — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:20:24 GMT

They knew the risks, they took the chance, they now pay the penalty .... I have no time for drug dealers at all ...

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

the_bob_delusion — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:25:59 GMT

@am*3 wrote:
Not really. Prisoners have a choice - act like an ass for their entire sentence or exhibit model behaviour with the expectation that they will get out of prison earlier than if they act like an ass the whole tiime. The good behaviour thing does work.

You missed the point. These celebrities are up in arms for one particular offenders but not for others. Obviously they don't believe in Mercy for all.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

crosbystills — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:28:02 GMT

It's tricky. You can be against the death penalty in general but it's only natural to become more focussed on the issue when your own citizens are threatened. I sign a lot of petitions for Amnesty International (you can do it by sms) for their campaigns worldwide, but that's only a fraction of all the injustices happening. You can''t do it all.

You can easily turn Hinch's argument around. He's campaigned hard against paedophiles in Australia but has apparently done stuff all to take the fight to other countries. By his logic that's inconsistent.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

gleee58 — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:42:20 GMT

@**bob_on_the_go** wrote:
@am*3 wrote:
Not really. Prisoners have a choice - act like an ass for their entire sentence or exhibit model behaviour with the expectation that they will get out of prison earlier than if they act like an ass the whole tiime. The good behaviour thing does work.

You missed the point. These celebrities are up in arms for one particular offenders but not for others. Obviously they don't believe in Mercy for all.

Perhaps they didn't know the other were happening in advance. Perhaps they are against the death penalty for all.

Age factors into dumb decision making in a lot of cases. Youth, in some, tends to carry an "it won't happen to me" flippancy when getting venturing into risky behaviour.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

horizon1907 — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:46:02 GMT

@crosbystills wrote:
It's tricky. You can be against the death penalty in general but it's only natural to become more focussed on the issue when your own citizens are threatened. I sign a lot of petitions for Amnesty International (you can do it by sms) for their campaigns worldwide, but that's only a fraction of all the injustices happening. You can''t do it all.

You can easily turn Hinch's argument around. He's campaigned hard against paedophiles in Australia but has apparently done stuff all to take the fight to other countries. By his logic that's inconsistent.

I agree crosby, it certainly is a tricky debate. What we ( Australians ) must remember is that is their Law. Break it and you will pay the penalty. There are signs everywhere telling you this. They ( Indonesia ) execute by Firing Squad on a regular basis. We don't hear about it normally. It's only now when it's Australians, that it makes the news.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

cherry*135 — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:50:50 GMT

@**bob_on_the_go** wrote:
@am*3 wrote:
Not really. Prisoners have a choice - act like an ass for their entire sentence or exhibit model behaviour with the expectation that they will get out of prison earlier than if they act like an ass the whole tiime. The good behaviour thing does work.

You missed the point. These celebrities are up in arms for one particular offenders but not for others. Obviously they don't believe in Mercy for all.

You missed my point. Not all prisoners decide to go down the 'good behaviour' route . These two, have far exceeded that. They can't be compared to all other prisoners.

Some prisoners murder and show no remorse at all, no prospects of rehabilitation. No one wants to seem them released ever, if at all possible.

Therefore, imo, yes you can say some prisoners, deserve a second chance more than others.. Whereas, others need locked up forever.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

the_great_she_elephant — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 13:16:29 GMT

Presumably they are exercising that right to free speech that some posters here insist should be completely unrestricted.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

lyne-flyn — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 20:26:31 GMT

Bottom line is they...as in all the outraged Australians...can posture and pose all they like.

It will not make one iota of difference to the outcome...remember Barlow and Chambers...same reactions almost 30 years ago and it didn't do a thing to alter the outcome.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

jean2579 — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:01:07 GMT

Every time I think of these two young men I can't help thinking of how many young people in this country would have been hurt by the garbage they would have brought into their own country.
How many other parents would have been crying for lost children?
Would each of those parents have received the same press coverage as the parents and families of these men have received?
I doubt it.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

k0llectable5 — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:07:27 GMT

I think there are huge differences between someone who is caught with marijuana as opposed to someone who is caught with Ice or heroin. Because imo how can alcohol and cigarettes be legal yet marijuana is not? It is just a weed fgs. With a variety of medicinal purposes. I would definately stand for mercy for someone on death row who was caught wih marijuana before I would for someone who was trafickking heroin.

Also if you are against the death penalty, are you against the death penalty for all offences?,” he asked.

My answer would have to be no to that question. For example I dont believe in the death penalty for drug related offences but I do believe in it for other more vicious or depraved crimes. Especially toward those that show absolutely no mercy for their actions.

I think it would be hard to kill someone who genuinely felt sorry for what they had done though. (regardless of the crime) Like with the two boys from the Bali 9, their actions leading up to today seem to indicate that they have truly repented for their crimes and are trying to prove it by their behaviour. If it was up to me they'd live. Sometimes there has to be exceptions to the rules imo.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

polksaladallie — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:08:57 GMT

Their "garbage" would have made no difference at all. Drugs are as easy to buy as pizzas. There are plenty here without their small contribution.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

grapes_collector — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:09:47 GMT

I agree with bushies girl

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

bushies.girl — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:23:12 GMT

Great post Jean .... It's not as if they didnt know what they were doing or what the consquences were if they were caught

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

lyne-flyn — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:25:45 GMT

@polksaladallie wrote:
Their "garbage" would have made no difference at all. Drugs are as easy to buy as pizzas. There are plenty here without their small contribution.

I agree...whilst I feel sorry for parents who have lost children to drugs...each and everyone of those children took those drugs of their own free will.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

bushies.girl — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:29:34 GMT

As did those now facing the death penalty .... No one made them do it

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

the_bob_delusion — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:37:48 GMT

I have a question. How does anyone know if these people have rehabilitate and will not reoffend again???

The stats on rehabilitation is pretty poor. Should we be more lenient on those with the best acting skills?

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

polksaladallie — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:48:27 GMT

@**bob_on_the_go** wrote:
I have a question. How does anyone know if these people have rehabilitate and will not reoffend again???
The stats on rehabilitation is pretty poor. Should we be more lenient on those with the best acting skills?

I will say what I have said in another thread.

If you think they are acting, who is bribing the universities?

It has been proven that they are reformed, and because of that there is still hope for their cases.

Re: Hinch makes some very good points.

k0llectable5 — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:49:20 GMT

@**bob_on_the_go** wrote:
I have a question. How does anyone know if these people have rehabilitate and will not reoffend again???
The stats on rehabilitation is pretty poor. Should we be more lenient on those with the best acting skills?

I guess thats assuming that people never learn from their mistakes. I believe that some people will learn their lessons after something like this happens. It shows in their actions and behaviour. I'm not necessarily saying the the 2 boys from the Bali 9 should be released from prison, but if they are genuinely trying to help others and proving themselves via their behaviour and actions, that is how you know they are not acting.