topic Re: self regulation in Community Spirit

self regulation

wilk1149 — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:57:13 GMT

Does it actually achieve anything. Maybe the government could save all the money spent on the police force by letting the public self regulate

Re: self regulation

poddster — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:01:06 GMT

Vigilante style?

Hmm it may solve the rapid population explosion.

Re: self regulation

lloydslights — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:01:51 GMT

Would that be with or without a judicial system as well?

DEB

Re: self regulation

poddster — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:06:51 GMT

Yep wild west justice.

"Slap leather podner or eat lead"

Re: self regulation

softail-joanie — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:28:22 GMT

You should look up "Adam Kokesh" on Youtube, you should actually talk to him, he speaks out for this very thing. That we as humanity have for the most part outgrown government. How we can do it more effeicently, and with much less injustice. Police only respond to crime, they can't stop it and wouldn't if they could,they would only get in on it. By their very nature, cops rape, they are rapists, rape by definition is a display of force against another. They use force with a badge, gun, and their gang of other cops behind them.

Re: self regulation

creative*crisis — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:38:21 GMT

Well undertakers should get increased business.

Seriously do you think human beings demonstrate enough self control and moral fibre to make it work?

Re: self regulation

poddster — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:47:31 GMT

If they did we would not have the systems that we have in place now and we would be sporting our high caliber peacemakers in plain view on both hips.

Re: self regulation

chameleon54 — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:59:38 GMT

@softail-joanie wrote:

By their very nature, cops rape, they are rapists, rape by definition is a display of force against another. They use force with a badge, gun, and their gang of other cops behind them.

Many police are very good, caring and there for the right reasons. Unfortunately there is a large percentage that have the attitude you express. They are thugs and bullys, harrasing and attacking the weak and vulnerable in society. They strip them of humanity, are agressive, violent and grossly over-react. Usually this behavoir goes on, hidden from the wider community as it is those on societies fringe that are the victims. The voiceless, the homeless, mentally unstable and those living in the shadows of the law and society as a whole. Occasionally the police brutality comes into public view if a security camera or mobile phone captures graney images, but this is rare. Police harrasment and brutality goes on constantly. I wonder if the difficult job that they do makes this way or wether the police force as an occupation attracts this type of person ???

Re: self regulation

creative*crisis — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 00:11:06 GMT

This may be your experience but I really can't believe it's the norm.

The whole idea puts me in mind of "lord of The Flies"

Re: self regulation

softail-joanie — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 00:47:48 GMT

Many police are very good, caring and there for the right reasons.

A good caring and kind rapist, is still a rapist. I used to let myself be taken in by the cops who did seem to be as you describe in my above quote. Thing is they answer to those who are less kind, good, or caring, and you can never know if they are trying to put you at ease, trick, or bait you. Mostly they will tell lies about you not being arrested, the nature of the arrest, the length of time you will be locked up before a court hearing, being reliesed soon after, like the next morning, making you think it will be only an overnight stay in a comfortable jail. lies about your side going on their report so you can dispute their actions later, they will, not might pump you full of lies, posibilly to gain your cooperation. they don't want a hard time putting their victim nude in a freezing cage, who they see as low life criminal scum that deserves the treatment they plan to dish out, and don't even deserve the truth of what is about to happen to them.

Why would cops care about actually arresting the right person?, when they can snatch you up and abuse you for at least a week, or maybe longer anytime they want? And worse, get away with it. I live with this every day of my life, what they did, what they took, and helpless to do anything about not only whats in the past, but what the future holds. Whats the motivation for police not to do this again? and when will it happen?, when will I have to go through another hellish nightmare?

Not that anyone is treated good or fair in jail, but I'm paticualrly singled out for abuse. Because of my gender identity, I don't go into what they call "general population", on eather side. Means I spend 5 times longer in a holding cell, waiting for a space to clear up in a detention cell. Uasally with no clothing, or blanket, only a rug, on the primise that i might hurt myself with fabric. But the freezing cold don't concern them in the least.

I wonder if the difficult job that they do makes this way or wether the police force as an occupation attracts this type of person ?

I don't see their job as all that dificult, Drive around, responding to what gets called in, uasally a complaint thats un justified or un founded, throw their weight around, and go on tto the next call. Fill out incident reports, uasally with lies that will follow a person their entire life. If someone makes their "you know what" list, they may go to stores and warn that that someone is up to no good and ask the managment to trespass them, so they might get the chance to arrest them at a later time. Setting those up for long term abuse, I know, I live it.

If a genuine good cop, does somehow slip through the cracks, they won't last long, It's a systen that only allows for the most corrupt, sadistic, and perverted to get in and advance. Look up "Rigina Taska" for an example of this very thing.

It is hard to become a cop, the requirements are rigorious, thats because they not only want the most sadistic, but the smartest as well. Those cops who can learn and know just how to get away with their abuse, not make a mistake that gets the department in trouble, law suits and bad publicity.

My take is, although self regulation as this topic suggests, may not be perfect, and there would be some bugs to work out, it would have to be better than the corrupt system that often makes me wish i were dead.

Re: self regulation

chameleon54 — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 01:05:09 GMT

As I have mentioned in other posts my teenage son has quite severe mental health issues. Due to this I have had regular insights into the life of a group of young people who are verging on homelessness, suicide, drug use, absenteesim from school and ongoing mild to severe mental health problems. I transport them around, talk to them and occasionally give them somewhere to stay if kicked out of home. This included a 15 year old girl this last weekend. She was temporarily homeless.

I can assure you for this group, police harrassment and violence is a regular occurance. This includes one young teenager recently being capsicum sprayed in similar circumstances to the recent media coverage that caused outrage in recent weeks. I have personally witnessed several of these "incidents" myself. Not all police are like this. Many are excellent caring proffessionals. BUT there is a very large percent ( maybe 20% at a wild guess ) who are thugs, bullies and not acting proffesionally at all.

Re: self regulation

wilk1149 — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 01:02:32 GMT

Exactly my point. We know self regulation doesn't work yet ever mire right wing governments allow big business to self regulate

Re: self regulation

creative*crisis — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 01:20:57 GMT

@chameleon54 wrote:
As I have mentioned in other posts my teenage son has quite severe mental health issues. Due to this I have had regular insights into the life of a group of young people who are verging on homelessness, suicide, drug use, absenteesim from school and ongoing mild to severe mental health problems. I transport them around, talk to them and occasionally give them somewhere to stay if kicked out of home. This included a 15 year old girl this last weekend. She was temporarily homeless.

I can assure you for this group, police harrassment and violence is a regular occurance. This includes one young teenager recently being capsicum sprayed in similar circumstances to the recent media coverage that caused outrage in recent weeks. I have personally witnessed several of these "incidents" myself. Not all police are like this. Many are excellent caring proffessionals. BUT there is a very large percent ( maybe 20% at a wild guess ) who are thugs, bullies and not acting proffesionally at all.

I'm perfectly willing to accept what you say as true which is why I did not try to discredit Joanies personal experience.

I just don't like the idea that all police are tarred with the same brush as I know from personal experience there some very dedicated and caring people doing a frequently difficult job.

I hope the bad apples are not as high as the 20% you suggest but you'd be in a better positin to estimate than I.

Re: self regulation

myoclon1cjerk — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 01:36:45 GMT

Self regulation gave us the GFC.

Re: self regulation

chameleon54 — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:23:57 GMT

Softail-Joanie, I dont doubt your experiences for a second and admire your courage in sharing your story with us. You have experienced a side of life that so many of us never see.

Creative *crisis - I agree with you that many, many police are trying their best to do a fair and proffesional job in often extremly difficult circumstances. I suspect the minority that bend the rules, use excessive force, lie to their superiors and the courts etc. probably have a tendency to treat their policing counterparts in a similar, bullying way. My guess of 20% of officers acting in this way is high, but is my best guess unfortunatley and I dont think it is exagerated. Often when incidents occur it is only one officer who is the aggressor, but their partners say nothing and do nothing to intervene. I expect the occupation of policing requires a strong ethic of "officers having each others backs" and looking after each other on all occasions. This is perfectly understandable but leaves the door open for highly aggresive, bullying officers to get away with unproffesional conduct as the force and the court system just close ranks as a self protective mechanism.

As a white, anglo saxon, mature aged male with a job, a reasonable car and a neat home, I never experienced, or saw any hints of the police underbelly. I did not know it existed and dismissed occasional media reports as "one off" isolated events. I have even supervised juvinile offenders in the past, doing court ordered community service and still did know how the "other side" of policing operates.

It was not untill my own son became one of a group of powerless, marginilised members of society that I actually saw the police underbelly at work. As a parent I find it quite frightning as you never know when your child will become a victim of overzelous police brutallity.

Re: self regulation

creative*crisis — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:27:50 GMT

A society should be judged on how it treats it's neediest and weakest members. I wonder how we would stand up to scrutiny in that regard.

Re: self regulation

chameleon54 — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 03:02:18 GMT

Just a few more random thoughts.

Maybe my 20% figure of officers who bend the rules is large, because it is these officers who harrass and interfere with marginilised people on a regular basis and these are the ones I see. Maybe there are many other officers who just leave people alone if they are not doing anything wrong.

As a society we expect our police officers to stand up to dangerous criminals, drug cartels, bikies etc. This would require some pretty hard and tough characters who may not always do things exactly as the highly politicised, politically correct rule book says. We want and need these guys on our side, not thiers and sometimes the line can be fairly fine and easily crossed.

This is a completely different story to community policing where officers are often dealing with highly distressed, vulnerable and marginilised people. I suppose the "hard nuts" in the force doing the really dangerous work have to come from somewhere.

Re: self regulation

creative*crisis — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 03:12:52 GMT

@chameleon54 wrote:
Just a few more random thoughts.

Maybe my 20% figure of officers who bend the rules is large, because it is these officers who harrass and interfere with marginilised people on a regular basis and these are the ones I see. Maybe there are many other officers who just leave people alone if they are not doing anything wrong.

As a society we expect our police officers to stand up to dangerous criminals, drug cartels, bikies etc. This would require some pretty hard and tough characters who may not always do things exactly as the highly politicised, politically correct rule book says. We want and need these guys on our side, not thiers and sometimes the line can be fairly fine and easily crossed.

This is a completely different story to community policing where officers are often dealing with highly distressed, vulnerable and marginilised people. I suppose the "hard nuts" in the force doing the really dangerous work have to come from somewhere.

Thank you for your thoughts, unfortunately i think we don't often enough get to hear about the other side of the coin, so to speak unless, like you we are in a unique position to do so.

As a parent myself I can only say, I don't envy you your situation, there is nothing harder than watching your own child suffer .

I wish you both the best.

Re: self regulation

softail-joanie — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:45:14 GMT

Adam Kokesh- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TkR1lTUlZ8 . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy3ickwt1QQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxIeHJCl2l8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twoweTFu-y4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YhaMunQ2lY . . . . . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raFHlwVp4LI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVWldUKlr24 . . . . . . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c14GIEbeK8g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGdNu9nV6fs . . . . . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HD0E0nf8No

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuTjzYGaQb8 . . . . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r9_dt8fN-A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy7nZfSaM30 . . . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKhJufQQzNA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtF70mSLk4c . . . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyUtKkmAf5o

Re: self regulation

bluecat*dancing — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:02:21 GMT

My grandfather used to talk about the time when the police went on strike and how frightening it was.