topic Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People? in Community Spirit

How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

the_bob_delusion — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 10:34:06 GMT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_hCLWtEHL8

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

ladydeburg — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 23:46:58 GMT

So funny thanks for posting.

Now the utter stupidity of not vaccinating your children in this country and the online anti vaccine industry is now being shown the door by the government.

"Religious objection" that will no longer be an excuse to ruin your childrens life and even kill them but to protect other children from that type of stupidity.

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

cherry*135 — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 00:05:59 GMT

There was only one religion that had an exemption. The Christian Scientists, who don't have a large membership.

Abbott's 3 word 'no jab, no pay' doesn't apply to any family that isn't eligible for welfare (Family tax benefit) and who don't use paid childcare.

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

j*oono — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 00:17:11 GMT

I love it, but what I find the funniest about youtube is reading the comments.

hahaha!!! During your whole rant on YouTube, I vaccinated your whole family and pets.

Seatbelts lead to obesity in children. Being tossed about the car is good cardio!

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

ladydeburg — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 00:21:17 GMT

So this thread is about Abbott?

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

k0llectable5 — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 00:38:59 GMT

@ladydeburg wrote:
So this thread is about Abbott?

No it's about the policy of "no jab no pay" which imo is the real reason ridiculous videos like this are circulating. I've been avoiding this thread because the first person that exposes this video for what it really is will be labelled anti-vaxxer, child abuser, danger to society. When the fact of the matter is , if vaccines were so great they would sell themselves, the govt would have no need to enforce them by creating these types of policies, that undermine parents, who have done something so evil as to ask their maternal and child health nurse or doctor to please explain to them the risks and possible side effects of the vaccine they are about to administer (even though they are required to explain all of this to you before you or your child gets vaccinated, but they never do, you will always have to ask, then watch the mood in the room change...)

It's actually not normal to inject children with dozens and dozens of vaccines before they turn five without even giving it a second thought...

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

polksaladallie — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 00:54:38 GMT

An Australian anti-vaccination group has pulled an image likening immunisation to rape after widespread outrage on social media, saying the image 'should not have been posted'.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/04/23/anti-vax-group-pulls-facebook-image-comparing-vaccination-rape

Charming people, those anti-vaxxers.

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

punch*drunk — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 01:35:31 GMT

What a dreadful ad!

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

k0llectable5 — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 02:02:46 GMT

ladydeburg wrote:

So funny thanks for posting.

Now the utter stupidity of not vaccinating your children in this country and the online anti vaccine industry is now being shown the door by the government.

"Religious objection" that will no longer be an excuse to ruin your childrens life and even kill them but to protect other children from that type of stupidity.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Sorry for the long c&p but here is an immunologist with an opposing view on vaccines.

Dr. Tetyana Obukhanych has a PhD in Immunology and is author of the book, “Vaccine Illusion: How Vaccination Compromises Our Natural Immunity and What We Can Do To Regain Our Health.” Dr. Obukhanych has postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School and Stanford University. This is an excerpt from her testimony during the California Senate Hearings on SB 277 on April 8th, 2015.

In my childhood I contracted measles despite being fully vaccinated with 2 vaccine doses. My personal experience prompted me to examine peer reviewed research on measles and other vaccines in much greater detail than what is generally being taught in medical schools and PhD programs. Based on my in depth analysis of vaccines and the protection they afford I am here to testify that families who utilize personal belief exemptions do not pose a significant threat to the public and that personal belief exemptions must be preserved. First, assuming that the Disneyland measles outbreak provoked the introduction of SB 277, the question is: would it have been prevented with SB 277 in place?

According to the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report issued by the CDC at the peak of the outbreak, only 18 out of the 131 measles cases in California were in school age children with personal belief exemptions. The vast majority of measles cases in the outbreak were unrelated to personal belief exemptions.

Please let me now explain the measles paradox as noted in epidemiological studies. I quote from the Pollen and Jacobsen 1994 archives in journal medicine. The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons. Further research determined that behind the measles paradox is a fraction of the population called low vaccine responders. Low responders are those who respond poorly to the first dose of the measles vaccine. These individuals then mount a fake immune response to subsequent revaccination and quickly return to the pool of susceptible people within 2 to 5 years despite being fully vaccinated. Re-vaccination cannot correct low responsiveness, it appears to be an immunogenetic trait. Furthermore the low responders currently outnumbers those with personal belief exemptions in California. The rate of personal belief exemptions is currently 2.54%. In California the proportion of low responders was estimated to be 4.7% based on the antibody titer analysis following the second MMR shot.

It has been documented that vaccinated persons who develop breakthrough illness are contagious. In fact, 2 major measles outbreaks in 2011 in Quebec, Canada and in New York, New York were imported by previously vaccinated individuals. Based on these findings it is apparent that SB 277 cannot prevent future outbreaks, this is because low vaccine responsiveness together with documented contagiousness during a breakthrough illness in the vaccinated results in the measles paradox which cannot be eliminated by vaccine compliance.

Second, a big concern during the outbreak of a communicable disease is how to protect the immunocompromised. Public spaces can never be rendered infection free even when vaccination compliance is high, approaching 99%. For this reason the protection of the immunocompromised is achieved by administering measles immunoglobulin or human normal immunoglobulin upon probable exposure. This process is called passive immunization. SB 277 is not needed for the sake of the immunocompromised because of the availability of the immunoglobulin.

Third, the tetanus texoid and hepatitis B vaccines are intended for diseases that are not transmissible in school settings. Neither IPV, the polio vaccine, nor acellular pertussis, the whooping cough vaccine, nor the texoid vaccines are capable of preventing transmission of the infection. They intended to prevent disease symptoms only. Attempting to eliminate personal belief exemptions to these state mandated vaccines under the pretext of pursuing public safety has no scientific validity.

Please note that SB 277 would not simply bar students from public and private schools it would also apply to homeschooled children due to California’s designation of homeschools as private schools. Since children in California are required by law to receive an education the bill would in fact force any family who opposes vaccinations to submit their children to state mandated vaccines against their will. A forced medical procedure is a violation of human rights. About 100 years ago, in 1909 California passed virtually without opposition a forced sterilization law deemed at that time to be for the public good and science based. This is not the history we are proud of. This is not the history we want to repeat today. Mass media breeds intolerance for a small minority of families who choose to care for the health of their children differently from the mainstream. Such intolerance is irrational. Non-vaccinating families do not pose a unique or in most cases any threat to the public to warrant any discrimination against them. My conclusion is that SB 277 is not needed and personal belief exemptions must be preserved.

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

this-one-time-at-bandcamp — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 02:55:51 GMT

Dr. Tetyana Obukhanych has a PhD in Immunology and is author of the book, “Vaccine Illusion: How Vaccination Compromises Our Natural Immunity and What We Can Do To Regain Our Health.”

You can bet that the good doctor and her fellow "antis" would be pushing and shoving to get first in line for shots if an outbreak of smallpox or pneumonic plague erupted, unlike the very low mortality rate of measles or chickenpox. I wonder how she explains the rarity of polio, once the dreaded companion to summer, these days.......

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

k0llectable5 — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 03:01:04 GMT

@this-one-time-at-bandcamp wrote:
Dr. Tetyana Obukhanych has a PhD in Immunology and is author of the book, “Vaccine Illusion: How Vaccination Compromises Our Natural Immunity and What We Can Do To Regain Our Health.”

You can bet that the good doctor and her fellow "antis" would be pushing and shoving to get first in line for shots if an outbreak of smallpox or pneumonic plague erupted, unlike the very low mortality rate of measles or chickenpox. I wonder how she explains the rarity of polio, once the dreaded companion to summer, these days.......

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

A quote from a letter she wrote to legislaters that are currently considering vaccine legislation.

IPV (inactivated poliovirus vaccine) cannot prevent transmission of poliovirus \Wild poliovirus has been non-existent in the USA for at least two decades. Even if wild poliovirus were to be re-imported by travel, vaccinating for polio with IPV cannot affect the safety of public spaces. Please note that wild poliovirus eradication is attributed to the use of a different vaccine, OPV or oral poliovirus vaccine. Despite being capable of preventing wild poliovirus transmission, use of OPV was phased out long ago in the USA and replaced with IPV due to safety concerns.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24277828

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

this-one-time-at-bandcamp — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 03:31:35 GMT

IPV (inactivated poliovirus vaccine) cannot prevent transmission of poliovirus

In that case, why is an IPV the vaccine of choice in the US? An enhanced-potency IPV was licensed in the United States in November 1987, and is currently the vaccine of choice in the United States.

The Salk vaccine had been 60–70% effective against PV1 (poliovirus type 1), over 90% effective against PV2 and PV3, and 94% effective against the development of bulbar polio.[17] Soon after Salk's vaccine was licensed in 1955 children's vaccination campaigns were launched. In the U.S, following a mass immunization campaign promoted by the March of Dimes, the annual number of polio cases fell from 35,000 in 1953 to 5,600 by 1957.[18][unreliable medical source?] By 1961 only 161 cases were recorded

in the United States.

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

the_great_she_elephant — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 03:36:43 GMT

Perhaps you might also like to read this.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/why-does-this-immunologist-reject-vaccinations/

Of course, in a sense she is right. Vaccination is not normal - it flies in the face of evolution (just like antibiotics) Without them nature would take it's course and the strongest - i.e those with the best immune systems - would survive to pass on their genes to their descendants. Let's not forget, The Black Death, (Bubonic Plague) wiped out between a third and a half of the entire population of Europe within the space of a few years, but I'm sure those that survived had pretty awesome immune systems.

Myxomatosis was released in Australia to control the rabbit population.in 1950. It was devastatingly effective, reducing the estimated rabbit population from 600 million to 100 million in two years. However, the rabbits remaining alive were those least affected by the disease. Genetic resistance to myxomatosis was observed soon after the first release and most rabbits acquired partial immunityin the first two decades. Resistance has been increasing slowly since the 1970s, and the disease now only kills about 50% of infected rabbits

So there you go. If we stoped immunising, I'm sure the population would gradually acquire a greater natural immunity. There would , of course, be initial pandemics of diseases like whooping cough, rubella and polio, but maybe in 65 years time, we would be able to show a similar decline to the mortality rates from myxomatosis in rabbits. Obviously, while this decline was happening we would have to sacrifice quite a few of our children but I'm sure their grieving parents would be immensely comforted by the knowledge that they died in a good cause and without all those nasty drugs in their systems.

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

the_great_she_elephant — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 03:48:52 GMT

Natural Immunity at work:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/01/what-america-looked-like-polio-children-paralyzed-in-iron-lungs/251098/

http://www.medicinenet.com/diphtheria_facts/page2.htm#what_is_the_history_of_diphtheria

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

k0llectable5 — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 04:34:29 GMT

That was interesting she-ele, but using wikipieda to discredit an immunologists definition of immunization just doesn't really hold much weight.

Posting children in iron lungs from half a century ago also doesn't hold much weight with me either sorry. And it's one thing I would never do to further my agenda. I could post any number of children that have been permanently damaged by vaccines but I'm not going to go there out of respect for the families that are suffering every day because of this damage. It's not necessary in the discussion and it would only make me look inconsiderate and oppertunistic...

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

polksaladallie — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 04:50:44 GMT

@this-one-time-at-bandcamp wrote:
Dr. Tetyana Obukhanych has a PhD in Immunology and is author of the book, “Vaccine Illusion: How Vaccination Compromises Our Natural Immunity and What We Can Do To Regain Our Health.”

You can bet that the good doctor and her fellow "antis" would be pushing and shoving to get first in line for shots if an outbreak of smallpox or pneumonic plague erupted, unlike the very low mortality rate of measles or chickenpox. I wonder how she explains the rarity of polio, once the dreaded companion to summer, these days.......

It is often "Do as I say, not as I do" with these people.

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

the_great_she_elephant — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 04:52:24 GMT

@secondhand-wonderland wrote:
That was interesting she-ele, but using wikipieda to discredit an immunologists definition of immunization just doesn't really hold much weight.

Posting children in iron lungs from half a century ago also doesn't hold much weight with me either sorry. And it's one thing I would never do to further my agenda. I could post any number of children that have been permanently damaged by vaccines but I'm not going to go there out of respect for the families that are suffering every day because of this damage. It's not necessary in the discussion and it would only make me look inconsiderate and oppertunistic...

None of my links was from wikipedia.

And why is posting pictures from a polio pandemic 50 odd years ago not relevant. You may think that because you don't remember it, it isn't important, but I do remember it - I remember the fear, the heartrending stories and photos in the newspapers. I remember cinemas and local social events being cancelled, and I remember my mother's distress when the son of one of her closest friends was struck down with it (he was one of the lucky ones, he recovered with only minor side effects)

It was real, it was terrifying and the only thing the poplulation had to fight it with was natural immunity. Well I'm here to tell you NATURAL IMMUNITY DIDN'T WORK!!! thousands of children died or were crippled for life because IT DIDNT WORK!!! the only thing that eventually stopped children from getting polio was VACCINATION..

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

k0llectable5 — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 05:09:11 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
@secondhand-wonderland wrote:
That was interesting she-ele, but using wikipieda to discredit an immunologists definition of immunization just doesn't really hold much weight.

Posting children in iron lungs from half a century ago also doesn't hold much weight with me either sorry. And it's one thing I would never do to further my agenda. I could post any number of children that have been permanently damaged by vaccines but I'm not going to go there out of respect for the families that are suffering every day because of this damage. It's not necessary in the discussion and it would only make me look inconsiderate and oppertunistic...

None of my links was from wikipedia.

And why is posting pictures from a polio pandemic 50 odd years ago not relevant. You may think that because you don't remember it, it isn't important, but I do remember it - I remember the fear, the heartrending stories and photos in the newspapers. I remember cinemas and local social events being cancelled, and I remember my mother's distress when the son of one of her closest friends was struck down with it (he was one of the lucky ones, he recovered with only minor side effects)
It was real, it was terrifying and the only thing the poplulation had to fight it with was natural immunity. Well I'm here to tell you NATURAL IMMUNITY DIDN'T WORK!!! thousands of children died or were crippled for life because IT DIDNT WORK!!! the only thing that eventually stopped children from getting polio was VACCINATION..

Your Harriet Hall article uses wikipeidia in an attempt to debunk Tetyana Obukhanych.

Yes the OPV. Which was NEVER without it's fair share of problems, side effects including permanent paralysis, and shedding issues. It was taken off the market due to safety reasons. It seems like we've traded one health problem for a whole heap of other health problems. Once the disease was eradicated from the US in 1979, the only cases of polio were caused by the Sabin vaccine.

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

karliandjacko — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 05:14:41 GMT

@secondhand-wonderland wrote:
That was interesting she-ele, but using wikipieda to discredit an immunologists definition of immunization just doesn't really hold much weight.

Posting children in iron lungs from half a century ago also doesn't hold much weight with me either sorry. And it's one thing I would never do to further my agenda. I could post any number of children that have been permanently damaged by vaccines but I'm not going to go there out of respect for the families that are suffering every day because of this damage. It's not necessary in the discussion and it would only make me look inconsiderate and oppertunistic...

Are you too young to remember the devastation caused by polio?

How many kids at your school had polio?

Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

k0llectable5 — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 05:18:49 GMT

@karliandjacko wrote:
@secondhand-wonderland wrote:
That was interesting she-ele, but using wikipieda to discredit an immunologists definition of immunization just doesn't really hold much weight.

Posting children in iron lungs from half a century ago also doesn't hold much weight with me either sorry. And it's one thing I would never do to further my agenda. I could post any number of children that have been permanently damaged by vaccines but I'm not going to go there out of respect for the families that are suffering every day because of this damage. It's not necessary in the discussion and it would only make me look inconsiderate and oppertunistic...

Are you too young to remember the devastation caused by polio?

How many kids at your school had polio?

I'm more from the era where I can clearly see the devastation caused to some people by vaccines.

None. Although I do remember one older male teacher who had a slight limp because he had had polio as a child.