topic Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family in Community Spirit

Create Equality - Abolish The Family

icyfroth — Tue, 05 May 2015 05:27:54 GMT

The power of the family to tilt equality hasn’t gone unnoticed, and academics and public commentators have been blowing the whistle for some time. Now, philosophers Adam Swift and Harry Brighouse have felt compelled to conduct a cool reassessment.

Swift in particular has been conflicted for some time over the curious situation that arises when a parent wants to do the best for her child but in the process makes the playing field for others even more lopsided.

‘I got interested in this question because I was interested in equality of opportunity,’ he says.

‘I had done some work on social mobility and the evidence is overwhelmingly that the reason why children born to different families have very different chances in life is because of what happens in those families.’

‘One way philosophers might think about solving the social justice problem would be by simply abolishing the family. If the family is this source of unfairness in society then it looks plausible to think that if we abolished the family there would be a more level playing field.’

‘I don’t think parents reading their children bedtime stories should constantly have in their minds the way that they are unfairly disadvantaging other people’s children, but I think they should have that thought occasionally,’ quips Swift.

‘We should accept that lots of stuff that goes on in healthy families—and that our theory defends—will confer unfair advantage,’ he says.

Although it’s controversial, it seems that Swift and Brighouse are philosophically inching their way to a novel accommodation for a weathered institution ever more in need of a rationale for existing. The bathwater might be going out, but they’re keen to hold on to the baby.

Entire Article Here

So families should stop providing loving and nurturing environment in order not to disadvantage kid who aren't in a loving family relationship? So there's a level playing field for all children to grow up as equals?

Better still, take children away from their families and raise them in institutions to ensure a level playing field?

That's outrageous!

Trust the ABC to sprout such rubbish. They should be shut down and Swift and Brighouse should be the ones institutionalised.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

curmu-curmu — Tue, 05 May 2015 05:35:40 GMT

OMG! Abolish families? I shudder to think of the alternatives!

Idiotic SJW's who have no real concept of family values, and spew forth absurd propositions, designed specifically to draw attention to themselves, and create awareness of their abilities.

Trouble is, they just look stupid..

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

rabbitearbandicoot — Tue, 05 May 2015 05:36:33 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:

The power of the family to tilt equality hasn’t gone unnoticed, and academics and public commentators have been blowing the whistle for some time. Now, philosophers Adam Swift and Harry Brighouse have felt compelled to conduct a cool reassessment.

Swift in particular has been conflicted for some time over the curious situation that arises when a parent wants to do the best for her child but in the process makes the playing field for others even more lopsided.

‘I got interested in this question because I was interested in equality of opportunity,’ he says.
‘I had done some work on social mobility and the evidence is overwhelmingly that the reason why children born to different families have very different chances in life is because of what happens in those families.’

‘One way philosophers might think about solving the social justice problem would be by simply abolishing the family. If the family is this source of unfairness in society then it looks plausible to think that if we abolished the family there would be a more level playing field.’

‘I don’t think parents reading their children bedtime stories should constantly have in their minds the way that they are unfairly disadvantaging other people’s children, but I think they should have that thought occasionally,’ quips Swift.

‘We should accept that lots of stuff that goes on in healthy families—and that our theory defends—will confer unfair advantage,’ he says.

Although it’s controversial, it seems that Swift and Brighouse are philosophically inching their way to a novel accommodation for a weathered institution ever more in need of a rationale for existing. The bathwater might be going out, but they’re keen to hold on to the baby.

Entire Article Here

So families should stop providing loving and nurturing environment in order not to disadvantage kid who aren't in a loving family relationship? So there's a level playing field for all children to grow up as equals?
Better still, take children away from their families and raise them in institutions to ensure a level playing field?

That's outrageous!

Trust the ABC to sprout such rubbish. They should be shut down and Swift and Brighouse should be the ones institutionalised.

"the evidence is overwhelmingly that the reason why children born to different families have very different chances in life is because of what happens in those families.

Now there's an example of what a University education can do for you - I wouldn't have worked that out with my limited education.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

curmu-curmu — Tue, 05 May 2015 05:39:25 GMT

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:
Now there's an example of what a University education can do for you - I wouldn't have worked that out with my limited education.

Higher education at its finest?

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

rabbitearbandicoot — Tue, 05 May 2015 05:44:06 GMT

as my old grandfather used to say:

"If things don't alter .... they'll stay the same".

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

gleee58 — Tue, 05 May 2015 06:04:54 GMT

Talk about missing the point.

It's the Philosopher's zone. Discussion of the intricaties of life is what they do.

Plato pulled few punches in The Republic when he called for the abolition of the family and for the children of the elite to be given over to the state. Aristotle didn’t agree, citing the since oft-used argument of the neglect of things held in common. Swift echoes the Aristotelian line. The break-up of the family is plausible maybe, he thinks, but even to the most hard-hearted there’s something off-key about it.

‘Nearly everyone who has thought about this would conclude that it is a really bad idea to be raised by state institutions, unless something has gone wrong,’ he says.

Intuitively it doesn’t feel right, but for a philosopher, solutions require more than an initial reaction. So Swift and his college Brighouse set to work on a respectable analytical defence of the family, asking themselves the deceptively simple question: ‘Why are families a good thing exactly?’

Not surprisingly, it begins with kids and ends with parents.

‘It’s the children’s interest in family life that is the most important,’ says Swift. ‘From all we now know, it is in the child’s interest to be parented, and to be parented well. Meanwhile, from the adult point of view it looks as if there is something very valuable in being a parent.’

He concedes parenting might not be for everyone and for some it can go badly wrong, but in general it is an irreplaceable relationship.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

icyfroth — Tue, 05 May 2015 06:05:54 GMT

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:

The power of the family to tilt equality hasn’t gone unnoticed, and academics and public commentators have been blowing the whistle for some time. Now, philosophers Adam Swift and Harry Brighouse have felt compelled to conduct a cool reassessment.

Swift in particular has been conflicted for some time over the curious situation that arises when a parent wants to do the best for her child but in the process makes the playing field for others even more lopsided.

‘I got interested in this question because I was interested in equality of opportunity,’ he says.
‘I had done some work on social mobility and the evidence is overwhelmingly that the reason why children born to different families have very different chances in life is because of what happens in those families.’

‘One way philosophers might think about solving the social justice problem would be by simply abolishing the family. If the family is this source of unfairness in society then it looks plausible to think that if we abolished the family there would be a more level playing field.’

‘I don’t think parents reading their children bedtime stories should constantly have in their minds the way that they are unfairly disadvantaging other people’s children, but I think they should have that thought occasionally,’ quips Swift.

‘We should accept that lots of stuff that goes on in healthy families—and that our theory defends—will confer unfair advantage,’ he says.

Although it’s controversial, it seems that Swift and Brighouse are philosophically inching their way to a novel accommodation for a weathered institution ever more in need of a rationale for existing. The bathwater might be going out, but they’re keen to hold on to the baby.

Entire Article Here

So families should stop providing loving and nurturing environment in order not to disadvantage kid who aren't in a loving family relationship? So there's a level playing field for all children to grow up as equals?
Better still, take children away from their families and raise them in institutions to ensure a level playing field?

That's outrageous!

Trust the ABC to sprout such rubbish. They should be shut down and Swift and Brighouse should be the ones institutionalised.

"the evidence is overwhelmingly that the reason why children born to different families have very different chances in life is because of what happens in those families.
Now there's an example of what a University education can do for you - I wouldn't have worked that out with my limited education.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

bright.ton42 — Tue, 05 May 2015 06:10:02 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:

‘I don’t think parents reading their children bedtime stories should constantly have in their minds the way that they are unfairly disadvantaging other people’s children, but I think they should have that thought occasionally,’ quips Swift.

‘We should accept that lots of stuff that goes on in healthy families—and that our theory defends—will confer unfair advantage,’ he says.

That's outrageous!

Trust the ABC to sprout such rubbish. They should be shut down and Swift and Brighouse should be the ones institutionalised.

What a load of horse radish. Parents should feel guilty for reading Winnie the Pooh to their children at night?

For giving them love?

I wonder if these two 'philosophers' were paid for their so-called research.

Probably and with our money.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

icyfroth — Tue, 05 May 2015 06:27:54 GMT

@bright.ton42 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:

‘I don’t think parents reading their children bedtime stories should constantly have in their minds the way that they are unfairly disadvantaging other people’s children, but I think they should have that thought occasionally,’ quips Swift.

‘We should accept that lots of stuff that goes on in healthy families—and that our theory defends—will confer unfair advantage,’ he says.

That's outrageous!

Trust the ABC to sprout such rubbish. They should be shut down and Swift and Brighouse should be the ones institutionalised.

What a load of horse radish. Parents should feel guilty for reading Winnie the Pooh to their children at night?
For giving them love?
I wonder if these two 'philosophers' were paid for their so-called research.
Probably and with our money.

"I wonder if these two 'philosophers' were paid for their so-called research.

Probably and with our money."

I think there's an agenda to "seed" the idea into the public's mind. Get people used to the idea. There are sure be certain ppl who

who think it'd a great idea to pop out the kids, get a baby bonus and absolve themselves of responsibility by having the state raise them.

They'll be sold on the idea of true equality for all.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

rabbitearbandicoot — Tue, 05 May 2015 06:33:58 GMT

what do philosphers do? I mean how do they earn a crust?

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

rabbitearbandicoot — Tue, 05 May 2015 06:38:05 GMT

I read this:

Career Opportunities

Philosophy is the ultimate "transferable work skill." With its emphasis on reason and argumentation, philosophy is an excellent preparation for a career in law, religion, business, international diplomacy, social work, medical management or writing as well as post-graduate education. Philosophy majors successfully work in, but are not limited to the following occupational fields:

lawyer
banker
public relations director
publisher
journalist
retail management
librarian
counselor
marketing
consulting
research
accountant
social worker
professor
self-employed
labor relations
foreign service officer
public policy
non-profit work
minister
teacher

so, if you want to be good at any of the above, you would do philosophy first and then one of the above - eg law.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

gleee58 — Tue, 05 May 2015 07:10:17 GMT

You forgot the introduction to the discussion...

Is having a loving family an unfair advantage?

Plato famously wanted to abolish the family and put children into care of the state. Some still think the traditional family has a lot to answer for, but some plausible arguments remain in favour of it. Joe Gelonesi meets a philosopher with a rescue plan very much in tune with the times.

So many disputes in our liberal democratic society hinge on the tension between inequality and fairness: between groups, between sexes, between individuals, and increasingly between families.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

the_great_she_elephant — Tue, 05 May 2015 07:15:14 GMT

Philosophers like to push the envelope simply because it encourages people to really think about their attitudes to social questions and ask themselves why they feel the way they do.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

bright.ton42 — Tue, 05 May 2015 07:17:57 GMT

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:
what do philosphers do? I mean how do they earn a crust?

By saying kids should not be brought up in families, lol.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

gleee58 — Tue, 05 May 2015 07:27:10 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
Philosophers like to push the envelope simply because it encourages people to really think about their attitudes to social questions and ask themselves why they feel the way they do.

Yes, they do.

They ask the question and discuss the idea.

I don't get the impression, from the article, that they have a secret agenda to abolish the family unit.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

gleee58 — Tue, 05 May 2015 07:28:45 GMT

@bright.ton42 wrote:
@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:
what do philosphers do? I mean how do they earn a crust?

By saying kids should not be brought up in families, lol.

Is that what they said?

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

curmu-curmu — Tue, 05 May 2015 07:35:32 GMT

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:
what do philosphers do? I mean how do they earn a crust?

Pretty easy question to answer, Rabbit - they dream up rubbish, and spew out drivel! Especially in this case.

Without bothering to research the facts, I'd venture to say that the family unit has the very best chance of raising well-adjusted, sensible and practical young adults. It certainly did for my 3!

Yes...there are parents who should have been sterilised long before being given a chance to breed, but they're the exception, rather than the norm.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

rabbitearbandicoot — Tue, 05 May 2015 07:42:11 GMT

I remember seeing a show once - maybe Happy Days??

They had a guy who did nothing except lay on a table and think, then periodically he would sit up and say something, and then lay down again. Everyone else around waited for his words of wisdom. Does anyone remember the show? Was he a philosopher?

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

alexander*beetle — Tue, 05 May 2015 07:46:53 GMT

Wow, didn't most of you read past the first few lines. No wonder we are so quick to jump on opinions when the whole context of the article, plus the headline, are completely ignored. Without the headline the article is out of context. Talk about prejudiced posting.

Re: Create Equality - Abolish The Family

the_great_she_elephant — Tue, 05 May 2015 07:51:43 GMT

I'd venture to say that the family unit has the very best chance of raising well-adjusted, sensible and practical young adults. It certainly did for my 3!

But what is your definition of the 'family unit.' Is it strictly mum, dad and kids? Or could it be single mum or dad and kids, two mums or dads and kids, foster parents and kids or maybe grandparents and kids?

And does a child who is in daycare for up to 9 hours a day, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year suffer in comparison with a child who is at home with a parent all the time?

These are the kind of questions that article invites us to explore.