topic Re: Gay cake case in Community Spirit

Gay cake case

polksaladallie — Tue, 19 May 2015 21:59:42 GMT

Ashers Bakery lose 'gay cake' case: 'We will not be closing down, we have not done anything wrong' says boss Ashers bakery "unlawfully discriminated on the grounds of sexual orientation"

A Christian-run bakery which refused to make a cake bearing a pro-gay marriage slogan has been found guilty of discrimination after a landmark legal action at Belfast County Court.

The family-run bakery, which delivers across the UK and Ireland, turned down the request for a cake with an image of Sesame Street puppets Bert and Ernie below the motto Support Gay Marriage.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ashers-bakery-lose-gay-cake-case-we-will-not-be-closing-down-we-have-not-done-anything-wrong-says-boss-31233797.html

Re: Gay cake case

springyzone — Tue, 19 May 2015 23:28:22 GMT

One thing I have noticed is that on ebay, sellers can block a buyer-any buyer- from bidding or buying their items. They don't have to give a reason and do not have to have dealt with that buyer at all in the past.

I wouldn't have known that except I often read the seller's messageboard and sellers block buyers for a number of reasons. It might be that the buyer has left a lot of negative ratings or comments or is somehow thought of as potential trouble. Sometimes sellers just don't like what they see from other transactions or even on message threads.

I don't have a problem with any of that. But if it is okay on ebay to block anyone and no reason has to be given, then it seems to me that a Christian running a cake shop should not necessarily have to sell cake to anyone, on any terms, if they don't want to.

I understand the anti discrimination laws. I would think it was pretty crook, for example, if a gay or a black person walked into a store and was refused service simply because of who or what they are.

But that isn't what is happening here. No one is being refused service as such, I am sure this man could buy a cake. What the seller is saying is he does not wish to provide a cake with those graphics or words or get his staff to have to make one like that.

Turning it to ebay-how would people feel if they could be prosecuted for refusing to make changes to their item to fit in with the buyer's wishes? eg If you were eg a knitter and were asked to knit in an obscene logo to the front of a baby jumper, should you have to comply?

I guess my feeling is people should be entitled to be served no matter what race, sexual persuasion etc, but the seller should have a right to decide what sort of products he/she is willing to provide.

Re: Gay cake case

icyfroth — Tue, 19 May 2015 23:52:36 GMT

Is Asher's bakery well known as being devout Christians and as such would be expected to be against gay marriage?

If so, why would the gay lobby deliberately order a cake from this particular bakery, of all bakeries in Ireland?

Re: Gay cake case

this-one-time-at-bandcamp — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:02:07 GMT

So, you're implying that Christian business are anti gay marriage?

Re: Gay cake case

cherry*135 — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:03:03 GMT

Why shouldn't they? Shops that are open to the public should not be discriminating against gay persons, or any other group of people.

Re: Gay cake case

digupatin — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:08:26 GMT

The world has gone mad.

I get the feeling this may have been a test case by the gay lobby.

I'm neither for or against - however if a store doesn't have the right to sell or supply what they want to anymore, if it goes against their beliefs, it's ridiculous.

Next will we have complaints against Jewish delis for refusing to sell Pork or non Kosher food or against Muslim food stores for refusing to supply non hal al meat?

Re: Gay cake case

j*oono — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:17:10 GMT

Why didn't they just go to a different bakery? Life is too short.

Re: Gay cake case

this-one-time-at-bandcamp — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:18:25 GMT

Jewish delis already serve non-kosher foods.........

however if a store doesn't have the right to sell or supply what they want to anymore, if it goes against their beliefs, it's ridiculous.

So, apparently you are in favor of housing authorities discriminating against potential renters, perhaps because they feel blacks or muslims are an affront to their religion...........

Re: Gay cake case

bella_again — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:23:15 GMT

I can't help but wonder if its a deliberate act though on behalf of the Gay lobby person to bait the business. People know the services of shops before they go in them. It is really quite simple if a shop doesn't on the basis of their organisational stance provide a service go elsewhere! You could argue discrimination on a number of fronts across the board in various different sectors but who goes to court in an attempt to bankrupt a business and destroy their reputation. To me that's just another whole level of nastiness its not about equality because they are not trying to achieve that under these circumstances. Oh and its def a bait this is a UK case not the case in the US?

There are lots of cake shops that could have supplied that service and this person went there deliberately to further their agenda and cause trouble. The world has gone bonkers diqupatin.

Re: Gay cake case

gleee58 — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:29:21 GMT

@bella_again wrote:
I can't help but wonder if its a deliberate act though on behalf of the Gay lobby person to bait the business. People know the services of shops before they go in them. It is really quite simple if a shop doesn't on the basis of their organisational stance provide a service go elsewhere! You could argue discrimination on a number of fronts across the board in various different sectors but who goes to court in an attempt to bankrupt a business and destroy their reputation. To me that's just another whole level of nastiness its not about equality because they are not trying to achieve that under these circumstances. Oh and its def a bait this is a UK case not the case in the US?

There are lots of cake shops that could have supplied that service and this person went there deliberately to further their agenda and cause trouble. The world has gone bonkers diqupatin.

Or perhaps the store advertises that they will make cakes for any celebration and will write anything the buyer wishes.

Re: Gay cake case

icyfroth — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:30:19 GMT

wasn't there a similar case in the US a few years ago?

btw Ireland is set to legalise gay marriage.

Re: Gay cake case

icyfroth — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:30:55 GMT

@gleee58 wrote:
@bella_again wrote:
I can't help but wonder if its a deliberate act though on behalf of the Gay lobby person to bait the business. People know the services of shops before they go in them. It is really quite simple if a shop doesn't on the basis of their organisational stance provide a service go elsewhere! You could argue discrimination on a number of fronts across the board in various different sectors but who goes to court in an attempt to bankrupt a business and destroy their reputation. To me that's just another whole level of nastiness its not about equality because they are not trying to achieve that under these circumstances. Oh and its def a bait this is a UK case not the case in the US?

There are lots of cake shops that could have supplied that service and this person went there deliberately to further their agenda and cause trouble. The world has gone bonkers diqupatin.

Or perhaps the store advertises that they will make cakes for any celebration and will write anything the buyer wishes.

do you always deal with perhapses?

Re: Gay cake case

gleee58 — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:34:36 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
@gleee58 wrote:
@bella_again wrote:
I can't help but wonder if its a deliberate act though on behalf of the Gay lobby person to bait the business. People know the services of shops before they go in them. It is really quite simple if a shop doesn't on the basis of their organisational stance provide a service go elsewhere! You could argue discrimination on a number of fronts across the board in various different sectors but who goes to court in an attempt to bankrupt a business and destroy their reputation. To me that's just another whole level of nastiness its not about equality because they are not trying to achieve that under these circumstances. Oh and its def a bait this is a UK case not the case in the US?

There are lots of cake shops that could have supplied that service and this person went there deliberately to further their agenda and cause trouble. The world has gone bonkers diqupatin.

Or perhaps the store advertises that they will make cakes for any celebration and will write anything the buyer wishes.
do you always deal with perhapses?

We don't know the whole story or what went down in court. There might be a perfectly valid reason for the ruling that has been overlooked on the way to publishing a sensationalist story.

This is a discussion forum and we're all allowed to add comment. No need to get snarly.

Re: Gay cake case

gleee58 — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:41:16 GMT

Apparently the business took the order and the money then cancelled the order a few days later.

They lost the case because

"The defendants are not a religious organisation. They are conducting a business for profit and, notwithstanding their genuine religious beliefs, there are no exceptions available under the 2006 regulations which apply to this case."

Re: Gay cake case

lloydslights — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:46:28 GMT

Found this

3. They can express their own views through words, not by denying services

Bakers and photographers do have one free speech right. If they disapprove of a message, that business is free to express that disagreement. They can announce their disapproval both to the client and to the public. What they can’t do, however, is deny a service that they would normally provide to the public.

A conservative Christian can tell a client that he doesn’t approve of their nuptials. He can make public statements expressing his disdain for same-sex marriage. A baker can tell a client that she finds his views on God disdainful, even as she gives him the cake.

- See more at: http://tobingrant.religionnews.com/2015/01/26/three-reasons-baking-cake-not-free-speech-issue/#sthash.pKpvVPqH.dpuf

Re: Gay cake case

icyfroth — Wed, 20 May 2015 00:55:48 GMT

@gleee58 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@gleee58 wrote:
@bella_again wrote:
I can't help but wonder if its a deliberate act though on behalf of the Gay lobby person to bait the business. People know the services of shops before they go in them. It is really quite simple if a shop doesn't on the basis of their organisational stance provide a service go elsewhere! You could argue discrimination on a number of fronts across the board in various different sectors but who goes to court in an attempt to bankrupt a business and destroy their reputation. To me that's just another whole level of nastiness its not about equality because they are not trying to achieve that under these circumstances. Oh and its def a bait this is a UK case not the case in the US?

There are lots of cake shops that could have supplied that service and this person went there deliberately to further their agenda and cause trouble. The world has gone bonkers diqupatin.

Or perhaps the store advertises that they will make cakes for any celebration and will write anything the buyer wishes.
do you always deal with perhapses?

We don't know the whole story or what went down in court. There might be a perfectly valid reason for the ruling that has been overlooked on the way to publishing a sensationalist story.

This is a discussion forum and we're all allowed to add comment. No need to get snarly.

This is a discussion forum and we're all allowed to add comment. I can get snarly if I want to. Even though I wasn't.

Re: Gay cake case

youcandoityoucandoityoucandoit — Wed, 20 May 2015 01:07:30 GMT

@gleee58 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@gleee58 wrote:
@bella_again wrote:
I can't help but wonder if its a deliberate act though on behalf of the Gay lobby person to bait the business. People know the services of shops before they go in them. It is really quite simple if a shop doesn't on the basis of their organisational stance provide a service go elsewhere! You could argue discrimination on a number of fronts across the board in various different sectors but who goes to court in an attempt to bankrupt a business and destroy their reputation. To me that's just another whole level of nastiness its not about equality because they are not trying to achieve that under these circumstances. Oh and its def a bait this is a UK case not the case in the US?

There are lots of cake shops that could have supplied that service and this person went there deliberately to further their agenda and cause trouble. The world has gone bonkers diqupatin.

Or perhaps the store advertises that they will make cakes for any celebration and will write anything the buyer wishes.
do you always deal with perhapses?

We don't know the whole story or what went down in court. There might be a perfectly valid reason for the ruling that has been overlooked on the way to publishing a sensationalist story.

This is a discussion forum and we're all allowed to add comment. No need to get snarly.

Whats wrong with using the word perhaps?

Re: Gay cake case

imastawka — Wed, 20 May 2015 01:15:43 GMT

Perhaps it's not always appropriate

Re: Gay cake case

digupatin — Wed, 20 May 2015 01:51:19 GMT

@imastawka wrote:
Perhaps it's not always appropriate

Perhaps you're right?

Re: Gay cake case

icyfroth — Wed, 20 May 2015 01:56:22 GMT

@youcandoityoucandoityoucandoit wrote:
@gleee58 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@gleee58 wrote:
@bella_again wrote:
I can't help but wonder if its a deliberate act though on behalf of the Gay lobby person to bait the business. People know the services of shops before they go in them. It is really quite simple if a shop doesn't on the basis of their organisational stance provide a service go elsewhere! You could argue discrimination on a number of fronts across the board in various different sectors but who goes to court in an attempt to bankrupt a business and destroy their reputation. To me that's just another whole level of nastiness its not about equality because they are not trying to achieve that under these circumstances. Oh and its def a bait this is a UK case not the case in the US?

There are lots of cake shops that could have supplied that service and this person went there deliberately to further their agenda and cause trouble. The world has gone bonkers diqupatin.

Or perhaps the store advertises that they will make cakes for any celebration and will write anything the buyer wishes.
do you always deal with perhapses?

We don't know the whole story or what went down in court. There might be a perfectly valid reason for the ruling that has been overlooked on the way to publishing a sensationalist story.

This is a discussion forum and we're all allowed to add comment. No need to get snarly.

Whats wrong with using the word perhaps?

When you're trying to make a statement or defend an opinion, "perhaps" is just an assumption and not a fact.