topic Re: We Don't Want You Back! in Community Spirit

We Don't Want You Back!

icyfroth — Wed, 20 May 2015 05:42:59 GMT

Australia PM rules out leniency for ex-jihadists

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has ruled out any leniency for returning jihadists following reports that three of its nationals suspected of fighting with Islamic State were in secret negotiations with Canberra to come home.

The Australian newspaper said the three had approached authorities via intermediaries or family members, but that the talks were stalled over what punishment they would face and fears of the risk they might pose if they were reissued passports and allowed to return.

The news has sparked a fierce debate in Australia about whether or not to allow those who have left the country to fight with ISIS or other groups to return. The public and the government appear to be in lockstep in their opposition to the idea.

A lawyer representing one of the three Australian men told Fairfax radio that his client, an Australian-born convert to Islam, was prepared to face the full force of the law and wanted to use his experience to discourage would-be jihadists from joining the terror group.

Rob Stary said if he were capable of rehabilitation, "then we should utilise him, we should at least engage in the discussion, but the shutters have been put up by the (Australian Federal Police)".

Entire Article Here

Oh he wants to use his experience to counsel would-be-jihadists against joining ISIL, does he?

How do we know he's not a Trojan Horse and instead is instructed to recruit fresh meat?

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

go-tazz — Wed, 20 May 2015 05:53:19 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:

Oh he wants to use his experience to counsel would-be-jihadists against joining ISIL, does he?

How do we know he's not a Trojan Horse and instead is instructed to recruit fresh meat?

ISIS have beheaded those that have tried to desert them so the only way they could return to Aus is if they let

them,(that means there is then only one reason why they would let them return),

They went over there in the full knowledge that they were expected to murder innocent people,(that alone

makes them ineligible to return IMHO).

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

amalan11 — Wed, 20 May 2015 10:42:13 GMT

I read that these idiots must have their identity kept secret as Isis may kill them if they find they hope to desert...im thinking easy answer ,tell Isis who they are problem solved. What bothers me is the focus on what risk they may pose yet im also worried by what war crimes they are guilty of it looks to me like anyone in these groups are commiting rape,torture,murder and god knows what other deviant behavior

One cheerful thing though ... apparently the numbers of Recruits are staying stable as they are being killed at a fast rate .Apparently the latest fatality from Vic was beheaded for desertion

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

i-need-a-martini — Wed, 20 May 2015 12:16:46 GMT

A lot of them are young men being brainwashed into going by sinister recruitment and without understanding the implications of what they are going for.

Quite frankly, it would be better for Australia if they did come back.

Firstly, the intelligence they will be able to provide our government would be invaluable.

Secondly, the horror stories they would retell might make others rethink their own ideas of going over.

I say we should bring them back, lock them up and use them for our own purposes. Surely that makes the most sense?

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

icyfroth — Wed, 20 May 2015 12:34:22 GMT

@i-need-a-martini wrote:
A lot of them are young men being brainwashed into going by sinister recruitment and without understanding the implications of what they are going for.

Quite frankly, it would be better for Australia if they did come back.

Firstly, the intelligence they will be able to provide our government would be invaluable.
Secondly, the horror stories they would retell might make others rethink their own ideas of going over.

I say we should bring them back, lock them up and use them for our own purposes. Surely that makes the most sense?

Well if they're Aussie, we have no choice. We're legally bound to own them.

We can punish them with lengthy gaol terms and/or hefty fines, but that's about all. A lot of muslim radicalisation happens in Aus gaols.

I don't think their "horror stories" would put any young guns off. On the contrary. They'd think it a huge adventure much as Australian young men flocked to sign up for WWs 1&2.

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

*pepe — Wed, 20 May 2015 12:37:54 GMT

i say don't let them back in.

if they don't have the option of returning to the bosom of their family in the land of milk and honey when they are done with playing war games they may just think twice about going.

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

azureline** — Wed, 20 May 2015 18:54:42 GMT

No they won't think twice about going...... " it won't happen to me" syndrome

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

colic2bullsgirlore — Wed, 20 May 2015 20:45:43 GMT

So 'our boys" AKA the drug traffickers that were executed in Indonesia.... I noticed this catchcry being bandied around a

fair bit.....

A decade ago, these two young men made a dreadful mistake.

By all accounts they spent every minute since seeking to mend their ways and to steer others on the road to redemption. Proof the justice system could reform wrongdoers, not just punish wrongdoing.

Yet today, they were made to pay for one stupid decision of ten years ago with their lives.

Indonesia has not just robbed two young men of their lives but robbed itself of two examples of the strengths of its justice system.

These executions significantly weaken Indonesia's ability to plead mercy for its own citizens facing execution around the world.

As a close friend and neighbour of Indonesia, Australia is deeply hurt that our pleas for mercy were ignored.

It was completely unacceptable for Indonesia to proceed as it did when critical legal processes were yet to run their course, raising serious questions about Indonesia's commitment to the rule of law.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-29/indonesia-executes-andrew-chan-myuran-sukumaran/6428732

So.............. those that don't want the "jihadi boys" repatriated understand that by proxy you are sentencing the "boys" to death.

Some of those people that want to deny the jihadi "boys" the chance of rehabilitation appear to have supported the

repatriation of two drug dealers that were afforded the chance of rehabilitation and succeeded regardless of their early

demise

Tarred and feathered a jihadi terrorist..... no trial................. just a stamp on a passport.

.....hypocrites

Where's the sympathy now for "our stupid young boys"?

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

janeababe — Wed, 20 May 2015 21:39:38 GMT

@amalan11 wrote:
I read that these idiots must have their identity kept secret as Isis may kill them if they find they hope to desert...im thinking easy answer ,tell Isis who they are problem solved. What bothers me is the focus on what risk they may pose yet im also worried by what war crimes they are guilty of it looks to me like anyone in these groups are commiting rape,torture,murder and god knows what other deviant behavior
One cheerful thing though ... apparently the numbers of Recruits are staying stable as they are being killed at a fast rate .Apparently the latest fatality from Vic was beheaded for desertion

This happens in all wars, conflicts, it isnt a *new* concept. It is not an isolated happening.
Even the Australian soldiers in WW1, WW2 had its sick-in-the-head personnel committing these atrocities on civilians of war!

Re OP: We Dont Want You Back..... I heard on the news that one of the *boys* was a nurse in the hospital and was forced to join ISIS.

I havent quite made a personal decision yet... i dont think we have ALL the FACTS yet! (only what the media have wanted us to think!!!)

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

go-tazz — Wed, 20 May 2015 21:43:17 GMT

@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-29/indonesia-executes-andrew-chan-myuran-sukumaran/6428732

So.............. those that don't want the "jihadi boys" repatriated understand that by proxy you are sentencing the "boys" to death.

Some of those people that want to deny the jihadi "boys" the chance of rehabilitation appear to have supported the

repatriation of two drug dealers that were afforded the chance of rehabilitation and succeeded regardless of their early

demise

Tarred and feathered a jihadi terrorist..... no trial................. just a stamp on a passport.

.....hypocrites

Where's the sympathy now for "our stupid young boys"?

I always read that as,they knew the only possible way they might cheat death is if they showed that they were

rehabilitated,(so they put all their effort into that as a survival tactic).

They ignored all the signs not to do it but still went ahead with it,(the same as the currents ones).

Maybe the alternative the would be murderers have being given is to go back and cause mayhem in Aus

or face beheading?.

Survival mode would kick in and they would agree to anything.

Neither would get sympathy from me,

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

colic2bullsgirlore — Wed, 20 May 2015 21:53:42 GMT

re....... not sure which way the media is directing us .....

The pollies need to feel out the public sentiment before they commit to gain the best leverage

..... deja vu?

David Hicks

Political manipulation claims

Demonstration calling for the release of David Hicks

Australian and US critics speculated that the one-year media ban was a condition requested by the Australian

government and granted as a political favour.

The Law Council of Australia reported that the trial was "a contrived affair played out for the benefit of the media and the public", "designed to lay a veneer of due process over a political and pragmatic bargain", serving to corrode the rule of law.

They referred to government support for the military tribunal process as shameful.

In an interview, the prominent human rights lawyer and UN war crimes judge Geoffrey Robertson QC said that the pre-trial agreement "was obviously an expedient at the request of an Australian Government that needed to shore up votes".

He went on to note that 'no one looks on [the agreement] as a proper judicial procedure at all.

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

***super_nova*** — Wed, 20 May 2015 22:22:09 GMT

Have you seen the ISIS recruitment videos? They do not show atrocities. Those I saw show young men doing wheelies with tanks and waving flags. They show young men doing military type of training, and kick boxing all too music (I imagine music that appeals to young). The ad with the young doctor shows hospital caring for people and newborn babies. I believe there are also ads, all slick and appealing, calling young people to support IS where Muslims can live according to their believes without being insulted and assaulted by infidels. Some young people believe this propaganda; they also believe that what they see on out TV is anti Muslim propaganda. When they realise what is the truth many wish they never went over there, and I do not believe they pose any danger. especially as the authorities here know who they are and would be monitoring them.

Refusing to take these young people back is a de-facto death sentence, which is rather harsh punishment for stupidity. Their cases should be decided individually, and definitely NOT by our gutter press and shock jocks, who can whip up hate against anybody they wish.

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

idlewhile — Wed, 20 May 2015 22:40:23 GMT

These murder driven jihads should stay over there, they went there in the full knowledge that they would be involved in mass murder, rape, slavery all the other atrocities we see on TV.

Now they're whinging that the food was meagre, probably no X box and all the other comforts of home were missing, and head whacking was not all it was cracked up to be, they didn't get the slave women to rape every night.

They want to come home? they forsook all rights to have the Australian lifestyle they cheerfully left behind to join a murderous regime.

We will be faced with the left hypocrisy, the excuses and mealy mouthing sympathy just like we saw with Hicks, but these jihad's were willing and able aids to the most murderous and barbaric regime the world has ever seen, we are seeing it already from the ABC.

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

village_person — Wed, 20 May 2015 22:48:53 GMT

@i-need-a-martini wrote:
A lot of them are young men being brainwashed into going by sinister recruitment and without understanding the implications of what they are going for.

Wouldn't the brainwashing caper render these alleged humans as worthless? Surely they would be engaged in useless psittacism which would not help us at all.

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

village_person — Wed, 20 May 2015 22:54:46 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
Well if they're Aussie, we have no choice. We're legally bound to own them.

We can punish them with lengthy gaol terms and/or hefty fines, but that's about all. A lot of muslim radicalisation happens in Aus gaols.

I don't think their "horror stories" would put any young guns off. On the contrary. They'd think it a huge adventure much as Australian young men flocked to sign up for WWs 1&2.

icy, let's bell the cat. Let's be the first nation to make these worthless alleged humans stateless. Why don't our wonderful leaders rush a bill through parliament that says Australian law trumps international law in cases like this one and individuals who pursue this sort of stupidity will become stateless and they will have to try and become a citizen of the country where they are carrying out their madness.

We could send a message to these idiots as a sort of farewell: Have a nice day

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

idlewhile — Wed, 20 May 2015 23:41:44 GMT

Second generation jihads of dual nationality could be deported along with their parents.

It needs legislation so it will never pass, Labor and their partners the Greens won't, they would rather let them back in to poison our country, to cry they are just boys, boys who locked onto their computers and watched the crimes against humanity and rushed to join in.

These people can now pretend that they were only nurses but they went in the full knowledge of the murderous regime they rushed to join, the regime who burn people alive in cages and worse, the atrocities are too many to mention, no civilised person could ever participate in them let alone go to join them but these jihads did.

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

icyfroth — Wed, 20 May 2015 23:46:17 GMT

@village_person wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
Well if they're Aussie, we have no choice. We're legally bound to own them.

We can punish them with lengthy gaol terms and/or hefty fines, but that's about all. A lot of muslim radicalisation happens in Aus gaols.

I don't think their "horror stories" would put any young guns off. On the contrary. They'd think it a huge adventure much as Australian young men flocked to sign up for WWs 1&2.

icy, let's bell the cat. Let's be the first nation to make these worthless alleged humans stateless. Why don't our wonderful leaders rush a bill through parliament that says Australian law trumps international law in cases like this one and individuals who pursue this sort of stupidity will become stateless and they will have to try and become a citizen of the country where they are carrying out their madness.

We could send a message to these idiots as a sort of farewell: Have a nice day

Yes why don't we?

I don't know why our governments can't act on issues like this.

Can't stop the mining vandals from destroying our agricultural land and poisoning our waterways.

Can't stop foreign companies from buying up OUR property and driving prices to unaffordable level for Aussies. In their own land.

Can't stop huge amounts of drugs being smuggled into the country destroying generations of our population.

The list goes on.

Are they gutless?

Or really just powerless sock puppets of Global, New World Order organistations?

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

idlewhile — Thu, 21 May 2015 00:14:41 GMT

If they didn't have the road blocks of the Greens, Labor and the feral Senators they might be able to do better, but, the marketplace of outrage we get every time they attempt to right the wrongs of the past Labor gov gears up, ably abetted by the ABC and it's octopus's reach into every media format in this country.

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

cherry*135 — Thu, 21 May 2015 00:44:58 GMT

Does Abbott even know what he is talking a out most of the time?

No charges for suspected foreign fighters Matthew Gardiner and George Khamis

Two Australian residents suspected of travelling to the Middle East to assist in the battle against Islamic State have not been charged with any offences weeks after returning to Australia.

Tough new laws passed by Parliament last year, which include life sentences for those who participate in hostile activities overseas, were drafted to apply equally to those on all sides of foreign conflicts.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has said that anyone who returns to Australia after becoming a foreign fighter will be arrested and charged, after reports emerged that three Australians who joined IS in Syria or Iraq are in talks with the government about potentially returning home.

"A crime is a crime is a crime," Mr Abbott said.

"If you go abroad to break Australian law, if you go abroad to kill innocent people in the name of misguided fundamental extremism, if you go abroad to be an Islamist killer, well we are hardly going to welcome you back into this country."

Former Northern Territory Labor official Matthew Gardiner, who reportedly travelled overseas to help Kurdish forces fight IS militants, returned to Australia in early April. Mr Gardiner, who was deployed to Somalia in the 1990s with the Australian Army, was questioned by police upon his return before being released without charge. He has refused to comment publicly on why he travelled to Syria.

Melbourne father of two George Khamis returned to Australia in March after travelling to Iraq to join an Assyrian militia group, Dwekh Nawsha. Mr Khamis allowed Channel Seven's Sunday Night to interview him while he was in Iraq about his mission.

Mr Khamis was also questioned at the airport and released without charge.

SMH

Re: We Don't Want You Back!

idlewhile — Thu, 21 May 2015 00:51:53 GMT

Obviously they were not jihadis, did not join the death cult of isis, did not participate in head whacking and all the other atrocities, they were actually fighting against ISIS, in my opinion along with and many, many other Australians, they should be given a medal.

Good on them.